Wednesday, 4 October 2023

Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023

Second reading

Debate resumed on motion of Anthony Carbines:

That this bill be now read a second time.

Michael O’BRIEN (Malvern) (11:14): I rise to speak on the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023. This is an important bill. Its purpose is to amend the Summary Offences Act 1966 to ‘make the public display or performance of Nazi gestures an offence’ and also ‘extend the application of the offence of public display of Nazi symbols’. In our state, which has always been a proudly tolerant, multicultural state, we have seen some recent quite disturbing instances of public antisemitic behaviour – I think an increasing amount and level of public antisemitic behaviour. Just recently the Federal Court of Australia made a finding in favour of a number of former students at Brighton Secondary College, who were Jewish students who had been subjected to horrific antisemitic behaviour in school. I think we all know, either from our own experiences of going through the school system or that of our children, that school can be a difficult time for people, but there is absolutely no excuse for students having to face the horror of antisemitic behaviour when they go to their place of learning. The fact is that this judgement of Justice Mortimer, who I should say is now Chief Justice of the Federal Court, was in favour of those students and against not just the leadership of Brighton Secondary College but against the state of Victoria. The state of Victoria was found liable for the actions against those students.

Can I just say, as a side note, the fact that the state government threw millions and millions of dollars at defending what the Federal Court found was indefensible was appalling. It should not have happened. The state government should have listened to those students. The state government should have sat down with those students and found out the truth without forcing them to go through the courts for years and at great personal and financial cost. Now we know the court has found that those allegations were warranted and were upheld. Damages have been payable, costs have been payable. So, yes, in regard to the state government’s intransigence in fighting these Jewish former students from Brighton Secondary College, the financial cost is significant, but the emotional cost, the emotional trauma they have had to go through, not just from what they experienced at school but then having to relive that for the purposes of the litigation, is really an indictment on this Labor government.

They talk a big game – and I am sure that their hearts are well placed when they say that they are completely opposed to antisemitism – but we need to see more in terms of actions as well. I think the actions of the state government and the way in which they dealt with that litigation in Federal Court against those Brighton Secondary College students was appalling. I think the state government needs to take a very hard look at itself and how it dealt with that matter, and the next time the government is faced with allegations of antisemitism and its own liability in relation to that, it should take a very different approach. That appalling way in which the government handled that litigation is a discredit to this government because it not only increased, massively, the financial cost to Victorian taxpayers and more importantly to the plaintiffs, but also increased the emotional trauma that those students had to endure.

Sadly, that is not the only recent incidence of antisemitism we have seen in the state. We have seen a number of protests and demonstrations where black-clad neo-Nazis or neo-Nazi wannabes – it really does not make much difference whether they are or want to be – turning up and performing Nazi salutes on the steps of our Parliament.

Tim Bull: Disgraceful.

Michael O’BRIEN: Absolutely disgraceful. There have even been reports that neo-Nazis or neo-Nazi wannabes are gathering together in their costumes at restaurants.

A member: Losers.

Michael O’BRIEN: Losers, absolutely. Let me just say at the outset that the opposition is supporting this bill. Now, ‘Why legislate?’ is a question I have had in my consultation, and I will come to that in a minute. Some people say, ‘Look, we need to focus on education.’ I do not think you need to make a choice. I think you can educate and you can legislate. You can do both, and we need to do both. My message to the government is: do not think that by passing this bill – which you will, with our support – that that fixes the problem. It does not fix the problem. It may contribute towards a fix, but it is not enough in itself.

I was recently in the United States of America on a parliamentary visit – and I know that any time any of us travel beyond the confines of our own electorates, we have our great friends in the press gallery waiting to write up stories about what a lark it all is and what a junket it all is. When I was in Chicago, I spent half a day at the Illinois Holocaust Museum and Education Center. Can I say, I do not think I have had a more impactful and emotionally harrowing half a day in my life compared to the time I spent there. It was absolutely extraordinary. We have a wonderful Holocaust museum here in Melbourne, but I do have to say that the one in Illinois is something else again, incredibly impressive and a great testament to the founders and the supporters of it. I think this deserves to be in the record; as you enter the exhibition there is a plaque on the wall, and it says this:

The Holocaust was the systematic, state-sponsored murder of six million Jews by the Germans and their collaborators. Jews were the primary, but not the only Nazi victims, and all are remembered and honoured in this Museum.

The Shoah was unprecedented. Never before had a government, motivated by racial ideology, undertaken to murder an entire people. Spanning some 20 countries over 12 years (1933–1945), it is a defining event of the 20th century – with significant implications for our future.

Murder did not just happen. People perpetrated it. And real people endured it.

Through the words, voices, photographs, and artifacts of Chicagoland survivors and eyewitnesses, this Exhibition portrays the human dimension of the Holocaust, particularly the struggle of Jews to comprehend, cope, and resist. It empowers survivors to fulfill the promise they made to those whose lives and vibrant communities were destroyed: “Remember, and Do Not Let the World Forget.”

This is why legislation like this is important, because we say as a Parliament, ‘Never again’. And we are not about to stand by and watch while Nazi sympathisers or neo-Nazis spread their hate in our state. It is just not on.

I was aware this bill was going to be brought in when I visited the Illinois Holocaust museum, but I would recommend to any members, or any members of the public, who happen to visit it in Chicago to take the time. I had allocated a couple of hours and I stayed for four, because it was compelling. To stand in one of the actual transportation carts people were herded into and sent on railways to industrialised murder was unbelievably emotional. It is a reminder that there is evil out there and we cannot stand by and wash our hands of it, and we cannot fail to act. That is why we support this bill.

I did mention before that some people have questioned: is legislation the right approach in matters such as this? As part of my consultation on this bill I wrote to a number of legal, civic and community organisations, as you would expect, and one of those was Liberty Victoria, formerly the Victorian Council for Civil Liberties. I acknowledge that Michael Stanton, the president, is very clear. He says:

… we understand the important motivation for the Bill …

He says:

We understand that the display of Nazi symbols is highly confronting and offensive, particularly to the Jewish community and other minority groups that have been targeted by Nazi ideology.

Liberty Victoria is not for one second seeking to defend those who are out there trying to perpetrate Nazi ideology. However, he says that they do oppose the bill, and he gives give some reasons. There are some issues in relation to drafting. I will come to that, and I will be moving some amendments to, I think, improve and strengthen the bill in relation to drafting. But Mr Stanton says this:

… the focus of addressing the emergence of extremism should not be on expansion of executive power and censorship; it should be on education and addressing the root causes of why some people are attracted to such ideologies in the first place, including social isolation, growing economic insecurity and mistrust in government and the media. The proposed prohibition of symbols and gestures is a band-aid solution to a much deeper societal problem resulting the re-emergence of extremism.

I do not disagree with what Liberty Victoria says in terms of the need to also tackle root causes, but I do not think that is a sufficient reason to oppose legislation of this nature, because I think there is absolutely a demonstrated need by what we have seen on the streets of our cities and in fact what we have seen on the front steps of this very Parliament in recent weeks and recent months. There is a need for the law to take action, and this is why we are debating this bill today.

Turning to the bill itself, as I outlined, it has two primary purposes. The first is to amend the Summary Offences Act 1966 to make the public display or performance of Nazi gestures an offence. Secondarily, it is to extend the application of the offence of public displays of Nazi symbols. Let me refer to the first aspect, making the public display or performance of Nazi gestures an offence. Of course that leads to the question: what is a Nazi gesture? The bill seeks to deal with that question as follows. It defines ‘Nazi gesture’ as the Nazi salute, any other gesture used by the Nazi party, including gestures that so resemble Nazi gestures that they are likely to be confused with or mistaken for those gestures. I think we all know – I would be very confident we all know – what the Nazi salute is. Then it goes on to say:

any other gesture used by the Nazi Party …

I think that our police, who will be tasked with enforcing this law when it passes, will need to understand what ‘any other gesture used by the Nazi Party’ would mean. When we are creating laws in this place, we need certainty, and that is particularly so when we talk about criminal offences. People do have a right to understand what the law is. I understand that the government is not trying to be too prescriptive in its definition of what is a Nazi gesture. The Nazi salute – everyone knows what that is. And then it says ‘any other gesture used by the Nazi Party’ or a gesture sufficiently similar that it could be mistaken for it. I am not quite sure what that is. It would be helpful I think at some stage, whether it is in the second-reading debate or in the other place or whether it is through educational material, for the government to perhaps explain what it means by ‘any other gesture used by the Nazi Party’, just for the purposes of police, to assist them in enforcing this new law, but also for the public.

In terms of Nazi symbols, the bill expands the definition of ‘Nazi symbol’. Previously, when we passed legislation to outlaw the public display of the Nazi swastika, otherwise known as the Hakenkreuz, that was what was defined as the Nazi symbol. This bill expands it, so it goes beyond the Hakenkreuz to include any other symbol used by the Nazi party. I think that there is an issue with this definition, because it says:

any other symbol used by the Nazi Party …

I think that is extremely broad and it actually undermines the purpose of the bill. What the bill is trying to do, correctly, is outlaw the public display of symbols that are associated with the Nazi party, that are emblematic of the Nazi party. The fact the Nazi party may have used a symbol does not necessarily mean that that symbol is associated with the Nazi party. This is probably as useful as any time to advise the house under standing orders of amendments to this bill, and I request that they be circulated.

Amendments circulated under standing orders.

Michael O’BRIEN: The amendment that I seek to make in relation to this definition is to add in words so that, rather than reading ‘any other symbol used by the Nazi Party’, it reads, ‘any other symbol used by and associated with the Nazi Party’. I hope that members opposite understand the intention behind this. It is to actually make sure that the definition is in line with what we are seeking to do as a Parliament. The fact that the Nazi party may have used a symbol does not matter unless it is associated with the Nazi party, because that is what we are seeking to limit, that is what we are seeking to regulate and that is what we are seeking to proscribe.

It is the public display of symbols that are associated with the Nazi party. That is why the first amendment that I have circulated is there, and I do hope that the government takes it up. This should not be a question of partisan bickering. We want this to be a good law and we want it to be a workable law, and we think that this amendment will make it a better law, because it goes to the heart of what the intention is, and it is to proscribe the public display of symbols associated with the Nazi party. Unless you have those words ‘associated with’ in there, we do not believe the law will be as strong as it could or should be.

In relation to Nazi gestures the bill prescribes that:

A person must not intentionally perform a Nazi gesture if –

(a) the person knows, or ought reasonably to know, that the gesture is a Nazi gesture; and

(b) the performance –

(i) occurs in a public place, a non-Government school or a post-secondary education institution; or

(ii) occurs in sight of a person who is in …

one of those places.

The maximum penalty prescribed is 120 penalty units or imprisonment for 12 months or both. We are supportive of this. There are exemptions, and of course we do have to be careful because, for example, the very Holocaust museum that I visited, which had pictures and videos without an exemption – that sort of public display would actually be contrary to this bill. Clearly, there is no intention to try and stop Holocaust museums from doing the magnificent work they do in educating people about the horrors of the Shoah. So it is important that there are appropriate exemptions. The bill provides this where:

… the display or performance was engaged in reasonably and in good faith –

so there are two qualifiers there –

for a genuine academic, artistic, educational or scientific purpose; or

…

in making or publishing a fair and accurate report of any event or matter of public interest.

Those matters are covered in terms of the display or performance of a Nazi gesture. In relation to a Nazi symbol, it is where:

… the display of the Nazi symbol was engaged in reasonably and in good faith for a genuine cultural or religious purpose.

On that point let me just again note that there can be some confusion between the Hakenkreuz, the Nazi swastika, and the swastika that is used by other cultural communities absolutely legitimately. In fact, arguably it was the Nazis who tried to take and pervert what had been a genuine cultural and religious symbol of other communities – Hindu communities, Jain communities et cetera. So it is absolutely appropriate that there be an exemption in relation to reasonable and good-faith displays for a genuine cultural or religious purpose. There is also an exemption where:

… the display of the Nazi symbol … was engaged in reasonably and in good faith in opposition to fascism, Nazism, neo-Nazism or other related ideologies.

For example, if somebody was to have a picture of a swastika with a circle and a red line through it to indicate their opposition to Nazism, that would be covered by the exemption, and clearly that is appropriate. We look at these exemptions and they do appear to be reasonably drafted and appropriately drafted, and I have not had any correspondence from the various groups with whom I have consulted to indicate otherwise.

I do note that Liberty Victoria raised some concerns about the lack of particularisation of the definitions of Nazi symbols and Nazi gestures, and I referred to that earlier. I think it would be helpful if there was some guidance given to both police in terms of enforcement but also more broadly the public. I understand the government not wanting to necessarily have to explicitly define every single Nazi symbol and every single Nazi gesture, but it may be that the courts ultimately have to determine how those definitions are actually applied. In terms of how it is enforced, the bill provides a directions power to police:

A police officer may give a direction to a person to remove from display a Nazi symbol or Nazi gesture if the police officer reasonably believes the person is committing an offence against section 41K(1) …

And further:

A police officer may give a direction to a person to remove from display a Nazi symbol or Nazi gesture if –

(a) the person is the owner or occupier of a property on which the Nazi symbol or Nazi gesture is being displayed; and

(b) the police officer reasonably believes an offence is being committed against section 41K(1) …

There does seem to be a gap in these directions, because the directions power as drafted does not extend to giving the police the power to give a direction to a person to cease performing a Nazi gesture. If we think that one of the reasons why this bill is before the house – because of the morons in their black pyjamas out on the steps of Parliament House throwing up right-armed salutes – yes, under this bill that would be an offence. But police are being given a directions power in this bill for a reason. It is not enough for somebody to have committed an offence. We also want to give police a power to direct them to cease doing it, and while the directions power in this bill allows for police to direct somebody to stop displaying a Nazi symbol or stop displaying a Nazi gesture, there is no power for police to direct somebody to stop performing a Nazi gesture. There is a difference between displaying and performing. If we are talking about the wannabe neo-Nazis on the steps of Parliament throwing up their right-armed salutes, I believe, and the opposition believes, that the police should have a power to direct people to cease performing Nazi gestures, contravention of which would be a further offence. That is why I have moved amendments 2 and 3, which provide that:

A police officer may give a direction to a person to cease performing a Nazi gesture if the police officer reasonably believes the person is committing an offence against section 41K(1A) by performing the Nazi gesture.

Again, I hope that the government will look at these amendments in the spirit in which they are brought before the house. It is not about scoring any points, it is about saying we support the intent of this bill, and we think our amendments will make it better and stronger and more effective. I would be very disappointed if the government did not seriously take on board these amendments, because they are there to improve things. I think there is no difference between where the government or the opposition are in our opposition to Nazism and neo-Nazism and our absolute desire to protect vulnerable communities from that ideology of hate. So let us work together; let us make this bill better. I would urge the government to seriously look at the amendments that I have put forward, which are very reasonable and improve the drafting and will lead to a better outcome for Victorians.

It is a shame that we are in this situation – that we need as a Parliament to legislate on these sorts of matters. I think it is perhaps a bit of an indictment maybe on people’s understanding of history, a bit of an indictment on people’s understanding of the horrors of the Holocaust – what was perpetrated not just against Jewish people but against a whole lot of other vulnerable communities, many of whom are in this state today. They deserve to be protected, they deserve to be respected and they do not deserve to have their humanity called into question by morons parading around as wannabe neo-Nazis.

But that is where we are. We need to legislate for the world as it is, not as we would want it to be, because we have to be practical. We do have a problem in this state with neo-Nazism and antisemitism. While I understand the concerns of organisations such as Liberty Victoria, I do not think that education and addressing root causes is enough. It is important and it needs to be done, and as I said, the appalling occurrences at Brighton Secondary College and the appalling way in which the government dealt with that particular piece of litigation is evidence that a lot more needs to be done, not just at that school – I am not singling out Brighton – but right across the education system and right across the community, because this is too important an issue. As somebody who has got great respect for our Jewish community in the state as well as all the other communities who are targets of the Nazis, I think that this bill is important. It is important that we send a very clear message as a Parliament that we will not stand by silently while hateful ideologies seek to gain a foothold in our community. To again quote the words at the entrance to the Illinois Holocaust Museum, we will:

Remember and Do Not Let the World Forget.

With those words I commend the bill to the house.

Paul HAMER (Box Hill) (11:42): I too rise to make a contribution on the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023, which seeks to amend the Summary Offences Act 1966 to make the public display or performance of the Nazi salute and other gestures used by the Nazi party an offence and to extend the application of the offence of public display of Nazi symbols and for other purposes. Can I at the outset first acknowledge the work of the Attorney-General to bring this really important bill to the Parliament and also acknowledge the contribution from the member for Malvern. I do appreciate that the opposition will not be opposing this bill, and I know that the words of the member for Malvern and his commitment to this issue are genuinely heartfelt and I appreciate that.

I do also just want to start by making my own reflections of museums as the member for Malvern alluded to. Can I also give a shout-out to the Melbourne Holocaust Museum. Melbourne is home to the largest Holocaust survivor community outside of Israel and it has a wonderful museum that still continues to this day to have survivor volunteers that take school groups and other visitors through the exhibits and explain some of the horrors that occurred during that period. I would urge all members and all those watching today to make the effort to visit the Holocaust museum in Melbourne.

I also want to just reflect briefly on the Holocaust museum in Jerusalem, Yad Vashem. For members who do have the opportunity to travel to Israel, I would strongly recommend that they visit the museum. One of the most moving exhibits in that museum is the wall of towns. There are the names of all of the towns in which Jews were exterminated. When I was there I found the name of the town that my grandmother’s family had come from, and that is Staszow in Poland. I have not been to Poland, but my sister recently had the opportunity to visit Poland for the first time and did visit Staszow. All evidence that there was ever a Jewish community in that town has been completely wiped off the map. There are no Jews there. There is no evidence that Jews ever lived there – hundreds and hundreds of years of history in that place and there is no evidence. I was really horrified and shocked at the reports that she came back with about the level of casual antisemitism that still occurs to this day in Poland and in those communities.

Previously I have talked about my family history in relation to the Holocaust, but I do really want to focus today on what it means in contemporary Victorian and Australian society. It is really shocking that we have to deal with a bill such as this. It was only 12 months ago or so that we dealt with the banning of the Nazi symbol and the Nazi flag. While the Legal and Social Issues Committee report – and I note that the chair of that committee, the Minister for Small Business, is at the table and also that the member for Caulfield was a contributor to and active member of that committee – did flag that there may be other possible infringements and enforcements that would need to take place to combat the rise of antisemitism and other forms of vilification, I do not think that we would have expected that this would have had to come up so quickly.

Obviously it was submitted as text, but the second-reading speech did go into quite a few examples of where Nazi gestures have been used in recent times. I do want to actually read that into Hansard again and have that publicly stated on the record so people can see and just appreciate how frequent this is becoming:

• In mid-January 2023, a group of 25 males gathered at Elwood’s Ormond Point lookout and performed the Nazi salute –

obviously that is an area with a high concentration of the Jewish community.

• On 26 January 2023, a group of people performed the Nazi salute at a Merri-bek First Nations mourning ceremony.

• On 18 March 2023, a group of about 30 people marched along Spring Street, repeatedly performing the Nazi salute after an event …

that has been very well publicised.

• On 10 April 2023, a group of six men performed the salute outside the Melbourne Knights soccer club.

• On 20 April 2023, a group of people performed the Nazi salute and posed for photographs at a Bavarian restaurant in the Knox City Shopping Centre …

20 April being the anniversary of the birth of Adolf Hitler.

On 13 May 2023, a group of about 25 people gathered outside parliament to stage an anti-immigration rally, repeatedly performing the Nazi salute.

• On 4 June 2023, two people performed the Nazi salute in front of police outside the State Library …

• On 15 July 2023, eight men stood at the steps of Geelong’s City Hall holding up a white supremist banner and performed the Nazi salute; and

• On 29 July 2023, a group of people held a ‘‘white powerlifting competition’’ at a boxing gym in Sunshine West and performed the Nazi salute …

Obviously, even in the time since this has been released we have seen another horrific incident just a couple of weeks ago as part of, I guess, an unofficial ‘no’ campaign event, where the neo-Nazis felt that there was an opportunity for them to get up and further spread their message of hate.

In recent months there has also been a study which has been published by the Zionist Federation of Australia and the Australasian Union of Jewish Students which talks about the campus experience for Jewish students. Not only the numbers and the percentages but just the specific incidents that were occurring are really horrifying. Of the students participating in the study, 64 per cent reported that they had experienced antisemitism, and of the types of antisemitism experienced 37 per cent of the experiences related to traditional antisemitic tropes, 30 per cent involved Holocaust denial or minimisation and 37 per cent involved comparing Israel to Nazis.

There was an ability for students to document specific examples in detail, and there were comments that were recorded, such as:

Nazis were good people …

and

A person in my class heiled Hitler to me and not a single professor/tutor or student did anything. The uni needs to step up.

This is happening across all facets of our society, unfortunately. I think the original ban on the flag stemmed from an incident in north-west Victoria, which is far away from metropolitan Melbourne, but having those incidents at a public rally on a weekend, on the steps of Parliament, is the most confronting and in-your-face way of trying to demonstrate this hatred and vilification. Some of these incidents have made me consider and think about why this is occurring. What are the circumstances that we have created that have allowed this to become more occurrent? I really wonder how we have been allowed to – it is not just about the Jewish community but about all vulnerable groups, and I think everybody has a responsibility to have a look at what they are saying and which other groups they are attracting with such speech.

David SOUTHWICK (Caulfield) (11:52): I want to commend the member for Box Hill for his contribution, and the member for Malvern. I have spoken about this particular issue a number of times in this Parliament. I acknowledge the fact that there have been many times where I have had the opportunity to visit Holocaust centres both here and in other parts of the world, including Yad Vashem in Israel. The first time that I visited Yad Vashem in Israel with my then soon-to-be wife Hayley, it was very confronting to go through and see the imagery, to see the photos and to see the home movies that the Nazis made documenting the extermination of some 6 million Jews and many millions of others. But the thing that ultimately tore me apart was the children’s memorial, which is a cave-like area. You go downstairs to a room that is dark, pitch-black, with candles signifying the many children that were murdered by the Nazis – the 1.5 million children that were murdered by the Nazis – the reflection of those lights never ending. And in the background there are the names of the children that were murdered, where they had come from and their ages. That brought me to tears then, and I still recall and will never forget the fact that these horrible individuals sought to exterminate a race – exterminate people – just because they did not like who they were and the way they meticulously went about what they did.

If you think about where we are now, the fact that we are still in this Parliament talking about banning symbols and talking about banning Nazi salutes and that we have certain individuals – as few as they may be but as extreme as they may be, hateful and hurtful as they are – demonstrates that we have more work to do. The work is about having laws, and the work is also about having the education that goes with that. So I commend the work that is being done in this Parliament in a bipartisan way to ensure that we have the laws to protect those who are vulnerable. This is not just about Jews, and it was not about Jews back then. I want to quote someone, a Holocaust survivor that tomorrow turns 99, Abe Goldberg. He says:

If we will dismiss it, so who will remember? Never let people forget …

and:

… when you will survive, wherever you will find yourself, you should tell people what actually happened.

These are quotes from Abe Goldberg, and when I spoke to his son only moments ago, as he is preparing for a celebration of his life, he said that it all starts with words. It all starts with symbols. He is flabbergasted, at 99, that it is still happening today. Abe is a survivor, who made a promise to his mother that he would spend the rest of his life, should he survive, educating others. At the time when the Lódź ghetto was liquidated, he literally gathered together whatever materials that he could get, decrees from the Nazis, information, buried it in two boxes and said, ‘I’m going to come back. I’m going to survive, and I’m going to make sure the rest of the world knows what the Nazis did’. He survived, and his mother did not. His mother was gassed literally the day she arrived in Auschwitz. He fought and he survived, and tomorrow he turns 99.

To Abe and to the 19 other Holocaust survivors that are museum guides at the Melbourne Holocaust Museum, thank you, because you are doing what Abe is doing – you are ensuring that those stories survive. We will ensure that this atrocity never happens again, but there is work to do. And so I say to those 19 Holocaust survivors – many of whom are absolutely ageing, and I wanted to briefly mention them if I could – including Abe Goldberg OAM, Lusia Haberfeld, Szaja John Chaskiel, Viv Spiegel, Joe Szwarcberg, Henri Korn, John Lamovie, Sarah Saaroni OAM, Paul Grinwald, Andy Factor OAM, Irma Hanner OAM, Guta Goldstein, Dr Henry Ekert OAM, Professor Gilah Leder AM, Dr Jack Leder, Garry Fabian, Charles German, Peter Gaspar and Bep Gomperts: thank you.

To think that we had to have a Holocaust survivor that left Melbourne, that left Caulfield, that wanted to spend his retiring days in Beulah – 312 people in that town – who woke up one morning to a Nazi flag being flown effectively in his backyard. I found out about this, and I rang him. At that time we spoke about bans, and we were talking about it, but this never really kind of got the traction until we saw something that was taken into rural Victoria, a place you would never expect something like this to happen. And what did Peter say? Peter said, ‘It’s okay because I will make sure I won’t leave my home to have to see that symbol, to see that flag.’ The fact that the small community of non-Jews banded together – the local police and the local council worked together to ensure that flag was taken down without the laws, worked with bluff and bluster to get that flag taken down – shows the fact that we can rally together, but we do need the laws. We do need the protection. Peter is unwell. We wish him all the best at the moment. I checked in just this morning to see how he was going, but this is a tribute to him because Peter is a Holocaust survivor. It took that to talk about what we are talking about today, to get the action for us to do the work that we see today.

As the member for Box Hill rightly said and others, it was the committees and all the work that we did, it was Peter, it was the Holocaust survivors and it was the broader community. I want to say the targets in the past were not just about the Jews, they were about anybody that was different to the Nazis. There were the symbols that they used to identify different people – not just the Star of David on the Jews’ lapel but the other symbols, whether you were gay, whether you were from different backgrounds, the Gypsies, the Jehovah’s Witnesses, all of those – but today we have the same thing. On the steps of Parliament, the fact that you have got people Nazi-saluting not once, not twice and not to Jews but to people from LGBTI backgrounds, people from different backgrounds, is atrocious, it is appalling, it has got to stop and we got to have the laws to protect those individuals. That is why this is so important. Unfortunately, it is disgraceful that these people would seek to hurt people, but we do need those laws and the police do need those powers and we have got to work in whatever way we possibly can to support them.

I want to finish by thanking a few people, including Dr Dvir Abramovich from the Anti-Defamation Commission, who has spent a lifelong campaign fighting hate and antisemitism; the Holocaust survivors and the Holocaust museum, which I have mentioned; and Joe Szwarcberg. I took John Pesutto down to the Holocaust museum the day after these haters were on the steps of Parliament to meet Joe Szwarcberg, a Holocaust survivor, who shook John Pesutto’s hand, looked him in the eye and said, ‘John, please make sure this never happens again’. That is what that Holocaust survivor said, and that is our obligation in this Parliament – to make sure this does not happen again. Thank you to the Australasian Union of Jewish Students, who are tackling antisemitism on campus each and every day, and we need to ensure they have support and powers; to the Brighton Secondary College students that fought a campaign against antisemitism; and to the Jewish Community Council of Victoria and the many others that have stood up in their fight against antisemitism. We have work to do as a Parliament. We have work to do as a community. But this is a very, very important step in the process.

Daniela DE MARTINO (Monbulk) (12:02): It is an honour to speak on the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023. I would like to begin by acknowledging the powerful contributions today in this place from the members for Malvern and Caulfield and you, Acting Speaker Hamer. I would also like to take the opportunity to thank the Attorney-General and all those who have worked so hard on this important legislation as well as the previous legislation which banned the Nazi Hakenkreuz last year. We were the first government in this country to do so. Once again we were leaders and we were not laggards, and we continue to ensure that Victoria is a place where people are respected and where diversity is recognised as a strength.

This bill goes another step further to address the performance and display of the Nazi salute as well as Nazi gestures and symbols in public. Many of us here – I am sure all of us here – remember the egregious display of this offensive and repugnant gesture, being the Nazi salute, by the members of the National Socialist Network on the steps of Parliament back in March. We were all shocked, as well we should have been. As a government at that point in time we committed to banning that salute, and that is what this bill proposes to do. It will also ban the public display or performance of any symbol or gesture used by the Nazi party and its paramilitary, including the Schutzstaffel, the SS, the bolts symbol; the Totenkopf, which is the Nazi skull used by the SS; and any symbol of the Nazi paramilitary organisations such as the SA or Sturmabteilung – excuse my poor pronunciation – the National Socialist Motor Corps and the National Socialist Flyers Corps.

Whilst I am incredibly proud to be part of a government which calls out hate and division in our society and commits to doing something about it – and I am incredibly proud of the bipartisanship which exists for this too – I am also profoundly disturbed that a need exists for us to have to do this in the first place. It is incongruent to me that in this beautiful state of Victoria and in one of the most multicultural and livable cities in the world we have neo-Nazis. That anyone would glorify, even deify, the Nazis and Adolf Hitler and adopt their symbology to intimidate and incite fear and hatred is baffling to me, but here we are. I support this legislation with every fibre of my being. The standard you walk past is the standard you accept, and here in Victoria the previous Andrews and the current Allan Labor governments have stated quite forcefully that we simply do not accept these displays of hate, division and racism in our society, especially when the intent behind them is to incite fear and foment unrest. I have said it before, and I will say it again: our diversity is our greatest strength. Division merely fractures a society and leaves devastation in its wake.

Acting Speaker Hamer, thank you for sharing your compelling arguments and stories for why this legislation is so vitally important. I was listening to the list of the performance of Nazi salutes, and it was far too long. It was staggering in its length. The experience of Jewish students being subjected to antisemitism is truly awful. As a former teacher, there is nothing worse than seeing children throw around words that they should not use. Thankfully in my time I did not hear it, but it is rising now, and the question was posed – why – by you, Acting Speaker. That is a question we all do need to ask ourselves: why? I feel that probably part of the answer is that these children are so far removed from the generations who experienced it. I am the granddaughter of a World War II veteran. His story was part of my story, so it was spoken about in the family. I will talk about him a little bit more. My children were not around to even meet him or know him, so they are a generation removed. That is why education, as has been mentioned in here today, is so vitally important. The legislation is important – the education equally so. I will talk on that a bit more as well.

The member for Caulfield’s discussion of the Holocaust survivor Abe was particularly touching, and I would just like to pay my respects to Abe – and I wish him all the best on his 99th birthday tomorrow – as well as the other 19 Holocaust survivors, who have, I am sure, pushed through trauma in order to continue telling their stories. It is incredibly painful to revisit things like that, and the courage that they have displayed and continue to display to keep the memory of the atrocities alive so that we do not forget is something to behold. We must remember or be consigned to repeating the mistakes of history if we do not become good historians and learn from them.

The bipartisanship here today sends a clear message to those out there who identify as neo-Nazis, that their symbols of hate, division, racism and death will not be tolerated in our state of Victoria. Their numbers, we have to remember, are minuscule, and their ideology is abhorrent to the vast, vast majority of Victorians. There is simply no place for that salute or their symbology in our society. Almost a million Australians, both women and men, served in the Second World War. Across Monbulk, in my district, there are six RSLs with a proud history and a significant veterans community. There are still a few World War II service personnel with us here today. They have fought against the Nazis, both literally and figuratively. Seeing neo-Nazis on the steps of our house, our Parliament House, our symbol of democracy in this state, is an affront to them, is an affront to all those they are related to who were persecuted and is an affront to those who survived the persecution. It is an affront to us all.

I know my nonno, who fought in the Second World War as a conscripted soldier in the Italian army, would have been appalled. Despite the fact that Italy was originally in the Axis group with Germany, most of my nonno’s compatriots despised the Nazis. They saw their brutality and immorality. I know that my husband’s grandfather, the son of a German Jew who moved to England, would have been disgusted. He was born in England, but his father was a German Jew, and he fought in the Second World War. For him it was even more personal. He had Jewish relatives back in Germany, many of whom did not survive the Nazi regime. It so happened that my husband’s grandfather was in the British battalion that liberated Bergen-Belsen. It took him half a century to mention it to his family. He could barely talk about the horror that he saw. Thanks to the British archives I have actually listened to the firsthand accounts of those who were there to liberate the 60,000 prisoners who were on the brink of death. In fact about 19,000 of them died shortly after liberation; they could not be saved.

All I can wonder is what they would make of the cowards who call themselves neo-Nazis and adhere to the philosophies of one of the most hated and murderous regimes we have ever known. That is why I think it is important that we address the history behind these symbols and salutes – so that we do not forget. It was murder on a level never seen before. It has already been explained: 6 million European Jews were killed. To put that into context, greater Melbourne’s population this year is estimated to be 5.235 million. The population of Victoria is 6.78 million. It is pretty much wiping out all of us. And it was not just the Jews who were targeted and murdered, as has also been mentioned. They were responsible, the Nazis, for the persecution of many other groups of people. Poles, Sinti and Roma were viewed as racially inferior and were subjected to death in labour camps. Church leaders and Jehovah’s Witnesses who refused to salute Hitler or opposed Nazism were rounded up. Gay men and transgender women were arrested. Some were sent to concentration camps. Lesbian communities were harassed and destroyed. People with mental and physical disabilities were also killed as part of a euthanasia program, part of the Nazis’ belief in eugenics and eliminating people with so-called ‘inferior genes’. They also persecuted political opponents, revolutionary authors and artists, Red Army political officers and Soviet prisoners of war, to name a few.

In total, it is estimated that in addition to the 6 million Jews who were murdered, another 6 million to 11 million non-Jews were also killed. That means the Nazi regime murdered somewhere between 12 million and 17 million people. So it is vitally important that our younger generations are aware, and a significantly important reform we have made in education is the requirement that all Victorian government school students must be taught about the Holocaust in their year 9 and 10 history curriculum program. Our future adults need to know about the horrors of the past to inoculate themselves from history repeating itself. So when we see those symbols and gestures and we feel that revulsion, we need to ensure that our younger generation feels that revulsion with us as well. We will not stand for that here in Victoria, and I am proud to be a part of this government.

Matthew GUY (Bulleen) (12:12): It is very difficult to follow some of the speeches from some of the members who have presented on this bill today, particularly the member for Monbulk, who as a relatively new member I think has delivered a magnificent speech to this Parliament on why this bill should be supported.

I want to begin by just acknowledging the Jewish Community Council of Victoria and the Anti-defamation League and Dvir Abramovich and the work they do to combat antisemitism. I remember when I was in year 12, in 1991, in a state government school, back then we had members from the Holocaust Museum come and speak to us – in year 12 politics, I think it was – about what they had lived through. They were Holocaust survivors. As we know, Melbourne was one of the largest – I think the largest outside Israel – centres for Holocaust survivors. It was exceptionally powerful, and it is something I remember even to this day, the man who came and told us firsthand what he lived through.

But in keeping with the theme of a number of the previous speakers, I too want to reiterate why it is so important for us to support this bill. While it is obvious that for the Jewish community we must do this, it is in fact about all of us. As the member for Monbulk said quite rightly, for the veterans in this country who are not Jewish who fought against the Nazis and for so many other communities who settled after World War II in this city, along with our very strong and proud Jewish community, while we all must come together to not forget the horrors of the past and to support this legislation, it is a great testament to this house that on matters like this we do come together to debate and, as the member for Malvern has done, even try and improve on a bill which we know is without a doubt the right thing for all us to do. That we have to come, though, and pass this legislation is in many ways shameful, and the shameful displays of what we have seen in our state over the last few years are just that. But that is why we are here as parliamentarians – to protect Victorians who need it at the time. They need us to stand up.

I have been with the member for Caulfield to Yad Vashem in Israel. It is without doubt one of the most powerful experiences I think any human can see. I have been through Auschwitz with the former Senate President Scott Ryan, through Warsaw and seen the remnants of the ghetto where the Nazis housed Polish Jews and through Berlin and seen the Holocaust memorial that now exists in that city so as to never to forget what was perpetrated from that capital city upon so many innocent men and women and children. Never forget that through the death camps in Eastern Europe a million children – a million Jewish children – were murdered.

But as I say, this is something that all of us in Victoria from many different communities must remember. It is a piece of legislation where we must make sure all of us, all of our communities, understand why it is being passed. It is there to protect all of us. Quite obviously the persecution and the hate directed towards our Jewish community is something that must end, and this legislation will be another part of our state’s armoury to help do that. I put on record my admiration for the Jewish students who had to go through court proceedings to stand up for their rights and the support they received from their community. I think those students are – admirable is an understatement. They stood their ground, and now as a Parliament so should we.

I say this on record: Victoria is home to many, many people of Polish descent – Christian Poles, of which a quarter of the population was murdered by the Nazis during World War II. There are Italians; one in six Victorians has an Italian heritage. As the member for Monbulk just said, they rightly will never forget the Ardeatine Caves massacre, the greatest massacre in that country’s history during World War II, the chief perpetrator of which, Erich Priebke, was found in San Carlos de Bariloche in Patagonia in 1994 and ultimately brought to trial. There are Czechs in this state, and they will not forget what their families went through: displacement through the Sudetenland and through the reign of Reinhard Heydrich during his reign of terror in Prague through World War II. There are many Greeks in this state – we know there are many, many loud and proud Greeks, like the member for Northcote – who know what their countrymen and their grandparents would have fought through, gallantly against the Nazis, and the oppression they sustained.

I take the member for Malvern’s point about those in the press gallery who look scornfully at our trips overseas as members of Parliament. The member for Caulfield and I went through the synagogue in Thessaloniki, which was once a thriving Jewish centre, the second-largest centre in Greece, where the local Greek population sought to hide the Jewish population to save them against the Nazis, who came in there and wiped them out. So the history of Greeks and Jews in that city is that they did everything they could to save their fellow Greek Jews from the Nazis. It was a very powerful experience that we went through when we were in Thessaloniki.

For those of English background who lived through the Blitz, this is the most obvious sign. I find it quizzical when people of English background stand up and say – a very small percentage, I note, but obviously they are using these symbols that we seek to ban – this is somehow a positive symbol for them. Well, the Blitz was certainly not, and the efforts from those in the United Kingdom to withstand the German onslaught were certainly not.

For my own family in Eastern Europe where my great-grandfather was murdered by the Nazis, where my grandparents were put in a labour camp and had to wear a badge which said ‘OST’ and were taken back at the end of the war to a Nazi labour camp – Ostarbeiter, Eastern workers. My aunty was denied medical attention and died because she was considered Untermensch – subhuman, because they were Slavs – by the Nazis in a labour camp.

This bill is about all of us. It is about us as parliamentarians standing up for so many different communities – for the gay community that was persecuted and made to wear pink triangles and ultimately also sent to death camps. We cannot forget what happened in our grandparents’ lifetimes and in some cases our parents’. As the member for Caulfield said, ‘Those who forget history are doomed to repeat it.’ That is why this bill is important. That is why – and it is not a debate – these contributions are so important, because we are not forgetting it as parliamentarians either, and from so many different backgrounds and so many different communities. It is a testament to this Parliament that we come together to support this legislation and seek to better it and do what we can for so many in our multicultural society today.

I do just want to conclude, if I can, with my observations of Victoria’s Jewish community. We should be so proud that so many Jews who left Europe and came with absolutely nothing – and some were only days and weeks from being murdered – came here to find their sanctuary in Melbourne, Australia. Outside of Israel, per capita, more than any other city in the world, this was their sanctuary – Melbourne, Australia. Some have gone on to have incredible careers: business careers, careers in government, as thespians, in the law. The contribution is immense, and their families’ contribution is unbelievable. For the communities I have mentioned if anything, for those people, we owe this to them. We owe it to them to say, ‘You found your sanctuary in Melbourne, Australia, and 80 years on the Parliament of Victoria, all sides in this chamber, will never forget, and we also will make sure that the sanctuary you found for your family from the murderous regime in Europe will never be forgotten.’ We on both sides of this chamber will proudly always stand up to protect them and future generations, as we will every other community. I am very proud to support this legislation.

Kathleen MATTHEWS-WARD (Broadmeadows) (12:21): It is really hard to come after so many fabulous speakers on this topic – well, it is not tricky at all. It is quite simple, what we are doing today. It is great to have the bipartisan support and to hear all of the reasons why we should do this, and it has been wonderful to hear the speakers.

I rise today in support of the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023, and I would like to start by acknowledging the remarks already made by my parliamentary colleagues. It is quite an emotional thing we are talking about, and I will try and stick to what has been said, but it brings up a lot of feelings of how hurt people have been. It takes a toll on the people who have spoken today, particular people from that community, such as you, Acting Speaker Hamer, who have felt that hatred and bigotry directly. It is unfortunate that circumstances compel us to take these steps, but after members of the National Socialist Network repeatedly performed the Nazi salute I believe it is our collective responsibility to stand against such vile and offensive acts of hatred. While this bill is part of a much larger anti-vilification reform agenda, it is important that the Parliament urgently sends a clear message that hate speech and symbolism will not be tolerated in Victoria. In this state diversity is not just a passive presence; it is actively celebrated and protected at every level.

Living in Glenroy, I have been privy to almost every wave of migration to Australia since the 1970s. I have personally witnessed the richness each culture brings. My own electorate of Broadmeadows showcases the best of diversity in Australia, and it is an honour to represent such a diverse multicultural and multifaith electorate. I love attending our cultural celebrations and having the opportunity to listen to and learn from so many different experiences and life stories. I love how we all come together to take part in each other’s festivals and celebrate important milestones and religious occasions. Whilst we do not have a large Jewish population in Broadmeadows, I spent a lot of my teenage years reading about Jewish history through my Catholic education, and I also went to Israel when I went overseas and loved my time there and learned a lot.

Our inclusivity fosters an environment where new ideas are born and all people progress together. Victoria’s status as the Education State is also strengthened by the diversity of thought and ideas that we foster. Victoria’s diverse student population benefit from exposure to a wide range of perspectives, preparing them for an increasingly interconnected world. We are able to shape global citizens. My kids were so fortunate to attend one of the most multicultural schools in the state, and I am forever grateful for the richness that this has brought to our lives. We love that they went to school with kids from over 30 countries who speak more than a dozen different languages, including Arabic, Nepalese, Urdu, Turkish, Syrian and Malayalam, and they learned some Sinhalese from our beautiful family day carer Sureka.

In our Victorian way of life there is so much to take pride in and so much to fight for and protect. This is why we must stand firmly against any display of hate towards any of our communities – our Jewish community, our Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community, our LGBTIQ community, people with a disability and all our multicultural and multifaith communities. The display and performance of these symbols and gestures causes direct harm to our community. This government has already made it an offence to publicly display the Nazi swastika symbol. However, the increasing frequency of Nazi salutes and the performance of the Nazi salute on the steps of Parliament House have clearly shown the need for further prohibition of the popular Nazi symbols that are often used to incite hate. Unfortunately I witnessed it directly at the renaming of Moreland to Merri-bek. These guys turned up and were so hateful, but also disguised themselves so that they could not be seen. They were absolute cowards. It was hateful, it was intimidatory, and they were just trying to create fear – that is exactly what they were doing. It was frightening for us, but I can only imagine how frightening it is for people of the Jewish community who have all the trauma behind the Nazi symbols and salutes. It was disgusting.

These acts are deeply antisemitic and bring back pain and trauma for so many. Incitement of violence, hate speech and the promotion of hatred and discrimination should not be protected forms of expression in democratic societies. Banning Nazi hate symbols is consistent with these limitations and is a necessary step in protecting the safety and wellbeing of our communities. It is important to note that this bill is only targeting the symbolism associated with the historic Nazi party and not with contemporary neo-Nazi movements. This temporal aspect of the definition of Nazi symbols and gestures to only relate to the historic Nazi party has been developed in consultation with the police. The broader work being done by the government as part of its anti-vilification reform agenda will be more suited to tackle the underlying harm caused by contemporary symbols associated with fascism and the Nazi ideology.

It is also important to note that this bill includes exceptions for the use of symbols associated with the Nazi party for cultural, religious, educational, journalistic and artistic purposes, and it is important to highlight these exceptions. The swastika, for instance, has long been a symbol of auspiciousness and prosperity in Hinduism, Jainism, Buddhism and other religions. The community naturally feels that the Nazis have appropriated their holy sign for something so abhorrent. This government is committed to ensuring that we put forward legislation that is culturally sensitive for all Victorians, and I am so glad to see that this bill is sensitive to such issues and has differentiated between a symbol of hatred and a symbol of peace and purity.

Nazi hate symbols have regularly been adopted by hate groups, white supremacists and neo-Nazis. These people promote ideologies that directly contradict the principles of equality and tolerance. These symbols serve as rallying points for such groups, providing them with a sense of identity and purpose. They are used in recruitment calls by fringe groups, and we often see young people getting carried away by the passionate speeches and symbolism that these groups use to promote their ideology without any thought for what harm they are doing to the young people who get sucked in by this. They are also used to intimidate and spread fear among marginalised communities, and we have seen that so many times.

Countries like Germany, where the horrors of the Nazi regime are still remembered, have implemented strict bans on Nazi hate symbols. These bans have not resulted in the erosion of freedom of speech but rather have been essential in combating hate and extremism. The German example shows us that it is possible to strike a balance between free speech and the prohibition of symbols that perpetuate bigotry and violence. It is essential to recognise that banning Nazi hate symbols is not about erasing history. We must remember and learn from the atrocities of the past to ensure that they are never, ever repeated. However, groups like the National Socialist Network are not using these symbols for any educational or historical purposes, as we know. Their only aim is to fearmonger and intimidate marginalised communities. Museums, educational materials and academic institutions play a vital role in preserving and disseminating the historical record. This ban on these hateful symbols in public spaces in everyday life is to prevent them from being used to glorify hatred in the present – it is not to erase our memory of the past.

Allowing Nazi hate symbols to persist in our society risks normalising extremist ideologies, something that worries me every night. When hate symbols are openly displayed, they can influence vulnerable individuals and make them susceptible to radicalisation. Banning these symbols sends a clear message that we will not tolerate the spread of hatred and extremism in our communities. In addition to the moral and ethical reasons to ban the Nazi hate symbols, there is also a pragmatic reason to do so: to prevent violence and hate crimes. Extremist ideologies often lead to acts of violence. We have seen this in countries across the globe, where neo-Nazi rallies are often followed by weeks of unrest and turmoil. History has shown that when hate is allowed to fester and spread unchecked, it can have devastating consequences. Banning these symbols is a proactive measure to prevent such violence from occurring. When we allow these symbols to be displayed openly, we fail to protect those who have already suffered so much. Banning these symbols is an act of solidarity with these communities, a strong statement to highlight that Victorians will not stand by and tolerate the perpetuation of their trauma.

This government has already undertaken extensive consultation to make sure that innocent gestures are not criminalised as a result of this legislation. That is why the context in which the gesture is performed is critical to understanding whether an offence has been made. Built into the provision – (Time expired)

Tim BULL (Gippsland East) (12:31): I too rise to make a contribution on the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023, noting our lead speaker’s contribution and that we will be supporting this bill. Since the passing of the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Symbol Prohibition) Bill 2022 there have been several incidents, including protests outside this Parliament, involving the use of the Nazi salute. As previous members have mentioned before me, it is a shame to some degree that as a Parliament we have to stand here and introduce and debate the merits of this bill, something that you would think in a civilised state and nation would not be required. Unfortunately, these incidents that have occurred highlight that the existing law did not deal with Nazi gestures, which has led to this bill to make the public display or performance of Nazi gestures an offence.

What this bill does is go to the heart of just being basically respectful and respectful to others. It is something that our society could do with a good dose of on a whole range of fronts at the moment. My family – my grandfather, my great-grandfather – came from the maritime industry, and it was interesting to hear from them that the swastika was originally used for a number of purposes, and it was emblazoned on the anchors of a lot of ships that plied our oceans in the 20th century. The swastika was then recognised in the maritime industry as a symbol of good luck or good fortune for those who were sailing on that vessel. That the symbol was originally used in relation to being conducive to the wellbeing of others makes it even sadder that it was adopted and used by a party that almost literally wiped out an entire culture, an entire race. It has also become in more recent times, as we know through particularly the Second World War, the symbol for Nazism and white supremacy, and it has no place in society.

Growing up as a young fellow in a little place called Metung, there were seven people in my entire primary school, and whilst I had heard of the Holocaust being mentioned in conversation – you know, when I was around adults talking about these things – I did not truly understand or recognise what it was until I got to secondary college and we had a lady come to visit our school in Bairnsdale. I remember this quite vividly, although it was over 40 years ago. Her name was Sarah Saaroni, and she was a Holocaust survivor. I can remember Sarah telling her story to us year 10s, and I just could not comprehend or get my head around what she was telling me. It was one of the most confronting speeches and talks I have ever listened to.

Following on from that, I have had the pleasure in latter years of visiting Israel with my friend and colleague the member for Caulfield, where we visited Yad Vashem, the Holocaust centre, and that too was an extremely confronting experience. The member for Caulfield I think in his speech spoke about the children’s area. I do not think there was anyone on that particular trip that walked out of that area without tears running down their cheeks.

The member for Bulleen also spoke about the fact that the Nazis declared not only war on Jews but their hatred for not only other races of people but other cohorts of people. My father is a World War II veteran. He was in London for the bombings. Despite being on a naval ship later that was sunk with 83 hands lost – and there were some graphic scenes there – my father said the most horrific and confronting scenes he saw throughout the war were in the London bombings. I also have an uncle who was killed by the Nazis in a little village, a town called Bayonvillers in France – an uncle that I unfortunately never got to meet. But all members in this chamber, regardless of which side they sit on, if they do not have members of their own personal families that were killed at the hands of the Nazis, would certainly have multiple families living in their electorates whose lives were torn apart at the hands of the Nazis. The grief and loss that that generation went through and those families are still living with in all of our electorates are unheard of. Therefore it is very, very extraordinary and difficult to get your head around that we can come down here to Parliament and have idiots out the front giving the Nazi salute on the steps of our Parliament. It is just crazy. Then the fact is that we have to come in here and move legislation like we are doing to outlaw certain actions.

The bill has got the support of both sides of the chamber. I just want to quickly make comment on the amendments moved by the member for Malvern on this bill. I do think that those amendments make the bill better in that they change the definition of ‘Nazi symbol’ to insert the words ‘and associated with’, so it will now read ‘any other symbol used by and associated with the Nazi Party’. I think speakers on both sides of the chamber have said enough today to acknowledge the fact that this is an important bill that is being moved with the goodwill of both sides to make improvements to wider society. I would hope that, if not today then perhaps between houses, the government could consider those I would call very commonsense amendments by the member for Malvern and have them adopted to provide even greater strength to this bill.

The second amendment that was moved by the member for Malvern relates to the provision for a police officer to have the power to direct a person to cease performing a Nazi gesture in a public place with the same criteria applied to that first amendment – with the words ‘associated with’ included. I would certainly hope that as a Parliament we can work together on this one and we can give that strong consideration and come out with the best possible result.

While the increase that we have seen in antisemitic behaviour in certain locations in this state is of concern – and it is appalling behaviour – we also need to recognise, as others have mentioned, that it is a very small minority, this group of people. I think that it is important that as a Parliament we stand united to send a clear message to that small, abhorrent cohort, which the speakers today on both sides of the chamber have done great justice to. We are very much a multicultural state and we have a great reputation for being a multicultural state, Victoria, that is welcoming to all. Indeed we are a multicultural country. This sort of behaviour, antisemitism, has no place in our society today.

I talked to my young daughter who is currently doing her VCE – I think it is still called VCE, isn’t it, year 12 or whatever it is. I remember what she said to me a number of months ago when she saw this protest. I was down here – and I ring home most nights – and she said to me, ‘Dad, what were those idiots doing on the steps of Parliament?’ This is a year 12 girl wanting to know about the fact that she is exposed to this sort of stuff. I said, ‘Darling, I can’t talk to you about that in 2 minutes. We’ll have a chat when I get home later this week.’ I walked her through the whole process starting at the Holocaust and the campaign of hate, and it was staggering to her that in today’s society where we promote understanding of all and we promote respect to all we can still have a cohort that displays those behaviours on the steps of this great place which has served this state so well.

This bill does send a clear message on behalf of the Victorian Parliament. I commend the speakers who have made contributions on both sides of the house. We have some people in here that have great knowledge, and they have a great authority to be able to speak on this subject through lived experiences and family history experiences. This bill is supported by both sides of the chamber, and I have no hesitation in commending the bill to the house.

Chris COUZENS (Geelong) (12:41): I am pleased to rise to contribute to the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023, and can I also acknowledge the many powerful contributions we have heard in this place today and certainly acknowledge those that do have that lived experience of family members. That cultural trauma has been handed down through generation after generation, and it is disappointing that we have to be in this place discussing these things and passing laws. But I think, you know, it is one of those things that as leaders we need to do, and we need to stand united, as we are in this place, to ensure that we do not allow this unacceptable behaviour to continue in our community without having penalties in place.

For many people this is very welcome. There is a small minority, I believe, in our community that are doing these hateful things – particularly what occurred out the front of Parliament not so long ago. I really struggle to comprehend what these people are thinking. I mean, I learned about the Holocaust and the horrific things that happened through that period, the impact on the Jewish community, but I still cannot understand how anybody else cannot accept that and that they go ahead and do these hateful, horrible things that impact so strongly on the Jewish community and on everyone. As I think we have heard here today, people felt sick when they saw what was happening out the front of Parliament. I agree. I also felt sick over that. But I cannot imagine the impact it has on those that are directly impacted by what happened throughout the Holocaust. Victoria needs this bill to address the harm that is caused by public displays of Nazi symbols and gestures that are being used to intimidate and harass. This bill will give police a legislative tool to prevent and cease the use of Nazi symbols and gestures.

I had the privilege of being a member of the Legal and Social Issues Committee that undertook the inquiry into the anti-vilification protections in the last Parliament, with a report that was tabled back in March 2021, and this inquiry received 60 submissions and conducted public hearings and site visits. Many of those contributions came from the Jewish community and talked about their painful and traumatic experiences. The committee found it was unsettling to hear of how people were targeted. Sitting there listening to that evidence – you think you do understand and know those impacts on the Jewish community, but for me it was a real learning experience on top of what I already knew.

The committee also heard that the victims of vilifying conduct are likely to experience various mental health impacts as it undermines self-worth and heightens vulnerability and isolation, so the report clearly laid out the harmful impact of vilification. As I said, we heard of those experiences. Although they were very difficult to hear, I very much appreciated the courage that it took for those from the Jewish community to give evidence, not only about what happened to their families but also what they were experiencing in our community, in this modern day, that you would not expect to be happening, but it was certainly there. We cannot forget that. We cannot forget what happened, and we cannot stand by and not do anything about what is going on right now. As a community we have a responsibility. I know in my community of Geelong there was absolute horror expressed when we saw the Nazi salute happening on the front steps of Parliament. I think, generally speaking, the vast majority of people in this state do not accept that – they do not think it is okay. You have those cowards, the gutless people out there that are doing the wrong thing and attacking the Jewish community, basically. That is what they are doing.

The bill bans the public display or performance of any symbol or gesture used by the Nazi party and its paramilitary arms. The bill forms part of the anti-vilification reform package in addressing hate speech and hate conduct in Victoria. The reform package is being developed in response to the parliamentary inquiry, which I have already mentioned. Although we would prefer not to have to legislate to address and prevent this kind of hateful behaviour, these reforms send a clear message that Victoria will not tolerate hateful conduct. The reforms are complex and require time and proper consultation to get it right, and we are currently consulting on the anti-vilification protections. The consultations are due to close this month. Victoria’s diversity is one of this state’s greatest strengths, and we are proud of how we welcome multicultural communities into our community more broadly. I know we do in Geelong. But we also know that we have to fight for it, we have to keep it. A lot of work every single day goes into keeping that diversity in our community and keeping that hate out of our community. We have all referred to various unacceptable activities across this community.

I often say to my community in Geelong that we need to continue to fight to keep that diversity and inclusion in our community. It is something that I am very proud of in Victoria, but also in my own community of Geelong, that we continue on that path. One of the things that we need to be doing is calling out this appalling behaviour and making sure we have laws in place to try and prevent that from happening, but if it does happen, that there are penalties for that, because at the moment, there are not. We need to make sure that we are protecting everyone in our community, including the Jewish community, who are being subjected to these horrors. All Victorians deserve to feel accepted and safe and included. What we have witnessed is unacceptable, and there have been a lot of these attacks directed towards various communities, including the Jewish community, but also the Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander community, the LGBTIQ+ community, people with disabilities as well as multicultural, racial and religious faith communities. We have seen that. I think what we are seeing very much so at the moment in particular is the attack on Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities in relation to the Voice. That is happening right across our country, not just in Victoria. I am very conscious of that sort of behaviour and that we need to be dealing with it, and this bill helps do that. The use of Nazi symbols and gestures is just totally unacceptable in Victoria, and all of us as leaders in our communities and leaders in this place need to be calling that out. We need to be saying to all our leaders across this country that that sort of behaviour is totally unacceptable, because we have seen some leaders across this country actually promote this sort of behaviour. So as leaders in our community, right here in Victoria, I think what we are now saying is that we all support this bill and we support getting rid of that sort of behaviour. I commend the bill to the house.

James NEWBURY (Brighton) (12:50): I rise to speak on the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023. Antisemitism is a disease. It is a disease in not only our community but all communities. Sadly and unacceptably, it is a disease that is spreading; we know that it is a disease that is spreading. So we stand here in the Parliament today to say that we as a Parliament will bring new laws to do what we can to say no and to try and combat that disease.

But it is not enough. It is not enough because of the spread of the disease in our community. We know that not only from the many speakers speaking to examples of that antisemitism but from the data that has been collected by the community. Every year the Executive Council of Australian Jewry release their report into antisemitism in Australia, and their most recent report found, as it does every year, an increase in incidents. I know the member for Caulfield and I open the report each year and speak immediately thereafter because we see an increase reported year on year. This year the number of incidents reported was up by 7 per cent on previous years – 7 per cent. Almost 500 incidents are logged – and that will not be all the incidents – each and every year.

We also know because the experts are telling us that. If you listen to the words of the director-general of ASIO Mike Burgess, his comments over recent years have been particularly strong about the rise of nationalist and racist extremism in Australia. I note the deputy director-general of ASIO’s comment that the number of incidents of that nature rose over a five-year period, from 10 to 15 per cent of work by ASIO to 30 to 40 per cent – an extraordinary increase in the most vile, scary and dangerous incidents in our community being reported by an organisation that would not normally speak to these issues in the type of work they do. I note that the director-general said that:

In suburbs around Australia, small cells regularly meet to salute Nazi flags, inspect weapons, train in combat and share their hateful ideology …

When you listen to those words, this bill will do something in relation to those groups now being lawfully unable to salute the flag. What this bill does not do is anything to impact upon the work they are doing with weapons, training in combat and sharing their hateful ideology. That is why we need to do more. That is why this disease is spreading, because though we all in this chamber support this bill so strongly, we know there is more to be done, a lot more to be done – and I will come to that.

Very, very soon after being elected I went to the Holocaust centre in the member for Caulfield’s electorate and met Irma Hanner, who had a profound impact upon me – a Holocaust survivor who returned home one day to find that her mother had been taken by the Gestapo. She waited two days for her mum. She was only a little girl. Her mum never came home. She was deported to a camp. Her mother did not make it. She looked at me and said, ‘James, a symbol can incite hate in the same way that a word can.’ It was a powerful message that she passed to me in the very early days of 2019.

Very soon thereafter the member for Caulfield and I, through committee work and then more publicly, spoke up and spoke on Irma’s behalf to say that our laws – which were 20 years old, outdated at the time – did not recognise that a symbol can have the same impact of hate as a word can. A symbol can have the same impact – words from Holocaust survivor Irma. The coalition, in one of the first acts it did, announced a policy in this space and then the government, to their credit, acknowledged that policy and enacted the first part of the law in relation to the Nazi flag. Now we stand here speaking to the Nazi salute in recognition that a symbol can be a sign of hate, and we know it can. Another survivor, Joe de Haan, once said to me that to him the symbol of Nazi Germany should have been wiped off the face of the earth years ago. He said it so straightforwardly, so simply, but both of them had such profound messages. I am so glad to be standing here supporting a bill which is doing part of the work.

But there is, as I said, more work to be done, because we know that nationalist and racist violent extremism is occurring in our suburbs. These are the words of ASIO. What we need to consider next as a community and as a country is whether these groups, who are operating in our suburbs, are considered terrorist organisations and designated as such, because they are not at the moment – they are not terrorist organisations designated as such. I would say that not only do we now need to stop their capacity to salute a flag, we need to look at these groups and frankly go after these groups. We need to stop them, in the director-general’s words, inspecting their weapons, training in combat and sharing their hateful ideology in our suburbs, and the only way to do that is to call them out and designate them as what they are, and they are terrorist organisations operating in our suburbs.

These are important measures, but they are just the start of what we need to do to stop this disease that is spreading in our community, that is spreading year on year not just in words, not just in symbols, and in too many cases spreading a message of violence, racism and threat to our community. As ASIO has recognised and said repeatedly, these people are a threat to our safety, they are a threat to our community. The coalition will be supporting this bill, but as a community we need to have a conversation about what we do next to stop this spread, to stop this growth and to frankly go after the extremists who are behaving in a way that none of us would accept.

Sitting suspended 1:00 pm until 2:01 pm.

Business interrupted under sessional orders.

The SPEAKER: Before calling questions I would like to acknowledge in the gallery today the presence of four members of the Legislative Council from the South Australian Parliament: Laura Henderson, Tung Ngo, Frank Pangallo and Heidi Girolamo. Welcome.