Wednesday, 4 October 2023

Bills

Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023

Second reading

Debate resumed.

Meng Heang TAK (Clarinda) (18:21): As I mentioned, it is fitting that this bill, the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023, is one of the first pieces of legislation that has come before the house under an Allan Labor government. It is a bill about justice, equality, fairness and cohesion – all values that will shine through in this government. As we know, Victoria is one of the most diverse places in the world, and our cultural diversity is central to who we are. The Allan Labor government is committed to nurturing Victoria’s vibrant multicultural and multifaith society, and we are here to commit to and to celebrate diversity. In fact, as many of the speakers before me have already said, it is essential that we continue to nurture Victoria’s cultural diversity to ensure our state remains a welcoming home for all. It is central to our identity and to our prosperity, and this bill builds on that work here today – work that continues to build a welcoming, accepting and cohesive society.

The Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023 aims to expand upon the 2022 ban on public displays of the Nazi hooked cross, also known as the Nazi swastika, to introduce bans on other Nazi symbols and to ban the display or performance of the Nazi salute in public. Last year’s ban was a very proud moment. I am very proud again here today that this bill before us will ensure that the Nazi salute and other gestures and symbols used by the Nazi party will be banned in Victoria to prevent hateful conduct and address the harm it causes in the community.

Allow me to say it was also an honour to be part of the Legal and Social Issues Committee with the honourable member for Caulfield and also the member for Box Hill and to listen to the very important public hearing on this very topic. I would also like to commend the committee’s former members and the secretariat for having the report back to Parliament before we had the first debate in 2022. I also would like to commend the Attorney-General for her work in sending a clear message that Nazi ideology and the hatred that it represents are not tolerated in Victoria. We have zero tolerance for this kind of glorification of hate. It is not acceptable. It is a message that I echo in the strongest possible terms. In my electorate and in our state – one of the most diverse and wonderful places in the world – there is no place for this nonsense. For the absolute overwhelming majority of us it does not matter where you come from, what you look like, what you believe in or what language you speak. In Victoria we are proud of our cultural diversity. We welcome diversity and we celebrate it.

I am proud to see the following amendments implemented here in this bill. The bill amends sections 41I to 41M of the Summary Offences Act 1966 and extends the existing prohibitions on the public display of Nazi symbols. Importantly it will be an offence for a person to intentionally display in a public place or in sight of a person in a public place a Nazi symbol or gesture if the person knows or ought to have known personally that the symbol or gesture is a Nazi symbol or a Nazi gesture. It will also be an offence for a person to intentionally perform in a public place or in sight of a person in a public place a Nazi gesture if they know or ought to have reasonably known that the gesture is a Nazi gesture. There are some commonsense exceptions, and this includes where the display of a Nazi symbol was engaged reasonably and in good faith for genuine cultural, religious, academic, artistic, educational purposes or in opposition to fascism, Nazism, neo-Nazism or other related ideological purposes. The exception will also apply where the display or the performance of a Nazi gesture was engaged reasonably or in good faith for genuine academic, artistic, educational or scientific purpose. For all of these reasons, I am very proud to be part of the Allan Labor government and to have spoken on this bill here – to contribute my part. I am very proud to be part of it.

I also should take this opportunity to say thank you to the former Premier Dan Andrews for his tireless work as Premier of Victoria for the last nine years and as my neighbouring MP since 2018. It was clear to me every day how the Andrews Labor government delivered for our thriving and diverse local community in Clarinda and also in Mulgrave. It was such an honour to serve in the Andrews Labor government delivering generational transformation across Victoria in health, education and the infrastructure system, from level crossing removals all along the Frankston and Dandenong lines to major works at the Monash and Dandenong hospitals and rebuilding many of our once-disadvantaged local schools and providing free TAFE and free teaching degrees. The Andrews Labor government delivered a once-in-a-generation change to Melbourne’s south-east. Thank you, Dan. I sincerely wish you and your family the very best in the future.

Of course I would like to congratulate our new Premier. She has always been a huge advocate for Kingston and the Greater Dandenong community. For that reason, I would like to commend the bill to the house.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Before I call the Leader of the Opposition, I remind members to not walk between the member on their feet and the Chair – it is disorderly.

John PESUTTO (Hawthorn – Leader of the Opposition) (18:29): I am pleased tonight to be able to rise and speak in support of the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023, and to some extent I approach this debate with some mixed feelings, because you would hope that in 2023 a bill like this would not be necessary. After decades of law reform and cultural change and the efforts like those which Australia but in particular Victoria has taken in a bipartisan way to build a beacon of diversity for the rest of the world to see how people from different cultures can come together, you would hope that this would not be necessary, but I join with others in saying that it is a necessary piece of legislation. It is why, as the Shadow Attorney-General and member for Malvern has said, it is a necessary piece of legislation and we will be supporting it.

We certainly have seen in the last year alone some examples of appalling conduct on the steps of this magnificent institution. It is no small irony, and a sad one at that, that a place that is so august and represents the greatest aspirations and hopes – a building which through its very architecture and the history of the generations of leaders who have served in this institution would suggest – had the odious gestures we saw on the steps of Parliament earlier this year in June, and only a few weeks or so after that again with Nazi protesters. It just reinforced the need for a piece of legislation like this. It is unacceptable in our community and in a democracy like ours, which sets itself as a benchmark for others to follow, one where we have worked tirelessly as a community, again across political divides, to ensure that people who come here – new and emerging communities – can participate in the prosperity of this state and that we can work together to share that prosperity as best we can so that those who come here can know with some confidence and assurance that they can continue to practise their cultural traditions, as with my family and others, that they do not have to abandon them when they come here and that they can do so in a way where they can join with others and share in their cultural and social traditions as well.

This legislation is important. We have seen recently the rise of antisemitic behaviour. As I will say in a moment, this is broader than just Victoria’s fantastic Jewish community. Following the Nazi protesters who appeared on the steps of this Parliament back in March, the member for Caulfield and deputy leader took me to visit the Melbourne Holocaust Museum, and I have to confess it was a very moving experience. During our meeting there with a number of representatives and leaders of the Jewish community I was honoured to be able to meet Joe Szwarcberg, a 92-year-old Holocaust survivor. I have to confess I have not in my political journey met too many Holocaust survivors. This was a week or so after the appearance of Nazi protesters on the steps of this Parliament. I know my colleague the deputy leader and member for Caulfield has mentioned this in his remarks too, but I will not forget sitting with Joe Szwarcberg and others and Mr Szwarcberg grabbing my hand and saying, ‘We must never let this happen again.’ I gave an undertaking that I will do everything I can to make sure that never happens.

We have to employ all means at our disposal to make sure we build a society and a community with the attitudes where people respect each other and do not dehumanise, because what this legislation really is about is taking a stand – not against free speech; we all know the importance of it, and we all believe in it. That is not really up for debate, in my view, in this bill. What really engages us in this bill is how we best identify that conduct which is not legitimate free speech but which is an odious means of dehumanising other human beings. That is really what it is about. Whilst I do not pretend that those boundaries are easy to discern at times, and there are obviously grey areas where even reasonable minds can differ on what free speech permits and what it does not, I do not think there is any doubt that the Nazi salute is an unmistakably hateful gesture that has the capacity more than other gestures to incite hate and to incite violence. That is why I support this, and I stand right behind this bill.

I should, in mentioning the Melbourne Holocaust Museum, mention Abe Goldberg, who I understand has turned, or is about to turn, 99, a Holocaust survivor who has been one of the pioneers of that museum. I also want to pay tribute to the Jewish Community Council of Victoria – the JCCV – and Dr Dvir Abramovich, who have been long-time campaigners for taking a stand against these types of gestures.

On the important question of freedom of speech, which we all understand is a critical human right in itself, I think this legislation does provide an opportunity for us to achieve what is the normative change we really want. I join with others in saying I do not want to be standing up week after week on bills to mandate or proscribe different gestures, but this one is an important one because what we want through this legislation is to not only protect particularly those in Victoria’s Jewish community. This will have a normative effect beyond that. It is saying that whatever gestures incite violence we do not accept that and we will take a stand against them. I understand the arguments about what is next – none of us want to continue to enact legislation to add to the list of proscribed gestures and proscribed symbols. But I do not think there can be any doubt about the Nazi salute and other Nazi symbols that are readily identifiable across generations and across ethnic and racial backgrounds, and that is why I stand with my colleagues in support of this bill.

Can I also add my support to the amendments moved by the Shadow Attorney-General, the member for Malvern. Notwithstanding my earlier comments about the need for legislation of this sort, these types of statutes are often confronted with difficulties about how you best define rights and obligations, particularly for those in law enforcement to deal with situations that are not easily foreseeable. What the Shadow Attorney-General has moved by way of amendments are very sensible, and can I just ask the Premier and her Attorney-General and the cabinet whether they might give serious consideration to these amendments in the spirit of bipartisanship with which they have been moved by the member for Malvern. They will reduce the capacity and potential for disagreement on the spot about what law enforcement agents can and cannot do. It is easy for us here to contemplate how that might look. But only those on the front line will know and discover just how easy it would be, and if we are going to do this I think we should ensure that those first responders and law enforcement officials have at their disposal all the capacity they need to address situations and circumstances you cannot with the best foresight in the world predict. And so I encourage the government to take the member for Malvern’s amendments on board and ensure that when this bill turns into law and is given effect it does so with more certainty.

I end proudly saying that as a Victorian I am – and all of us as Victorians can be – very proud that we do diversity better than anywhere else on the face of the earth. I think we demonstrate every day of the week that we can live in harmony, bringing together people from different races and ethnicities, different socio-economic backgrounds, different faiths, different political beliefs. We bring all of these people together. We respect their underlying humanity, which after all, despite all of our other differences, is our common bond, that common humanity. And it is not just important for new and emerging communities who come to this great state and this great country, but it is also a signal to the rest of the world, where hundreds of millions of people only wish that they could live with the rights and freedoms that we enjoy every day here in Victoria. This bill is a signal to the rest of the world that we still recognise those challenges, we do not take anything for granted and we will fight every day of the week to ensure that every person’s underlying humanity, their dignity and their opportunities to share in the prosperity of our great state can be protected, enhanced and professed with great pride around the world and here at home.

Josh BULL (Sunbury) (18:38): I am pleased to have the opportunity to contribute to debate on the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023. It has been famously said that those who fail to learn from history are doomed to repeat it, and if there is any member of this house, any member of our community or anyone listening online or reading through Hansard at a later date that has not yet had the opportunity to learn, to be educated on and to understand the evils, the horrors, the chaos and the destruction that was the Nazi regime, then you must take the opportunity to learn that now. By understanding the destruction, the horrors, the tragic loss of life and the devastation we of course begin to understand the critical importance of hate, of violence and of actions that must never be tolerated within our community or indeed communities right across the globe.

This government stands for peace and for supporting those of all faiths and all cultures in what is indeed a wonderful multicultural state. I note the comments made by the Leader of the Opposition and those opposite throughout the debate. I did have a school group in this morning to Queen’s Hall and made some comments about the importance of our democracy, the notion of acceptance and the fundamental belief and understanding that a critical element of democracy is that people within our community can and will have different views. But there is respect around values and the notion of a fair, just community where people’s views are indeed listened to, and that is done in a way that is free of fear, of violence and of things we know – through those incredibly dark times, the late 1930s and of course the 1940s, World War II and indeed other wars – have taken hold throughout the course of modern-day history.

We know and understand that the importance of those lessons must always remain at the forefront of policies, of the thinking of all governments of all persuasions. That is fundamentally important. What we know is that we as a government, as a Parliament and as a community must always stand against that hate, must always stand against that violence and must stand against those who seek to divide, who seek to spread evil. Those, although small, elements of our community who target minorities, those who are vulnerable, must of course be called out but not just called out; we need legislation such as this bill before the house and many, many other pieces of legislation to show in the strongest possible terms that this is not today and not any other day ever acceptable. We cannot be more clear about that, and if your mantra is hate, if your mantra is division and you come to spread fear, you will be sought out and you will be caught out.

This bill bans the public display or the performance of any symbol or gesture used by the Nazi party and its paramilitary arms. The bill forms part of the anti-vilification reform package in addressing hate speech and conduct in Victoria. The reform package has been developed in response to the parliamentary inquiry into Victoria’s anti-vilification protections, and these reforms of course, as we know, are complex and require considerable time to make sure they are fit for purpose. As I mentioned, the bill has been developed in response to the parliamentary inquiry as well as the recent incidents that have been mentioned by others in their contributions, as we have seen this year, where Nazi symbols and gestures such as the Nazi salute have been used to intimidate, to harass and to cause harm within our community.

Nazi party symbols and gestures are linked to the horrors of the Holocaust and the atrocities of the Nazi regime, and we know not just that many within our community – of course the Jewish community, Aboriginal and Torres Strait Islander communities, LGBTIQ+ people, those with a disability and other multicultural, racial and religious faith groups – always deserve the protections of legislation but that we as a community must stand together to fight this each and every day. As has been mentioned, our diversity within our state is one of our greatest strengths. All Victorians, Deputy Speaker, as you know, deserve to feel accepted, deserve to feel safe and deserve to feel included. The display and the performance of these symbols and gestures directly harm our community, and these displays of the Nazi symbols are intended to cause fear in our community. That is why this bill is focused on reducing the harm caused by such conduct.

We know that the government introduced the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Symbol Prohibition) Bill 2022 to make it an offence to publicly display the Hakenkreuz, the Nazi symbol. This offence commenced on 29 December 2022. When that legislation was passed, the government committed to working with Victoria Police and other relevant agencies to monitor the display of other hateful symbols to determine whether further symbols should be prohibited. Since that ban of course there has been a concerning and a steady increase in the use of the Nazi salute. That is in any circumstance – in all circumstances – not okay, not acceptable, and that is why the passage of this bill is so incredibly important. What we know is that those that want to propagate this fear, those that want to come into the community and spread hate and target people within our community, to bring about destruction and fear, and the actions of those who wish to spread such fear are in no way on any day acceptable. This Allan Labor government will always stand for fairness; it will always stand for justice and for defending peace within our community and within our society.

I want to take the opportunity to thank all of those that have advocated incredibly strongly to bring this piece of legislation before the Parliament, but I want to do so in a way that sends in the strongest possible terms the message that this government and indeed the Parliament should always be standing with those that are targeted through these cruel, divisive, dangerous approaches. I take the opportunity to acknowledge the work of the minister and the minister’s office on the preparation of the legislation, those that worked incredibly diligently on the inquiry and above all else those brave men and women who have unfortunately and in many cases tragically faced some horrendous, some vile, some disgraceful and some disgusting behaviour that should never, ever be tolerated. We as a government, as a Parliament, are always at our best when we come together to face elements within our society that should be put in the corner and should stay in the corner.

We know that the work within this space is ever challenging and ongoing. We know that this piece of legislation as a standalone piece of legislation is not, as many bills that come before this house are, a magic wand to prevent these incidents from happening ever again; we know that. But what we will do is build a suite of reforms that go towards fairness, that go towards preventing hate and that go towards preventing violence and making sure that the lessons of history are never, ever repeated, because that dangerous, that destructive, that evil regime – we know we must learn those lessons. We are better for it, and that is why I commend this piece of legislation, this important bill, to the house.

Jade BENHAM (Mildura) (18:48): I wish it was my pleasure to rise to speak on the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023. It is a shame that we need legislation like this. It is a shame that people do not make the connection between absolute evil and hate and the symbolism that the Nazi salute represents. It really is a shame. I am grateful that now every member of Victoria Police will have power to act, but the fact that the symbol, this salute, is still being used and that maybe the connection is not being made between this and the biggest atrocities of humankind ever is absolutely abhorrent. The fact that this has come through this place today, in the people’s house of democracy, I think speaks volumes.

I have been listening to all of the speakers today. The member for Northcote and the member for Monbulk in particular talked about family history. My family history is my grandparents fleeing after World War II and the effect that that had on their lives, their children’s lives and their grandchildren’s lives. Even though my kids did not have the chance – much like the member for Monbulk spoke about – to hear the stories directly from those that saw what happened in post-World War II Europe, education and making sure that we learn from this is really important. We can call them neo-Nazis; we can call them extremists. I do not know what the thought process is that runs through their heads to dress in their black pyjamas and come to a house of democracy and protest. I am not quite sure what that is, but the fact that Victoria Police now have provisions to act and to prohibit that is very important.

I do want to acknowledge the town of Beulah, as the member for Caulfield spoke about earlier. This all started largely in that small Mallee town of 312 people at the end of 2019–20 when a flag flying Nazi symbols was flown in a backyard highly visible to a Holocaust survivor – the trauma that that must have brought back for Peter, who has spoken about this in the past. The member for Caulfield has been in contact with Peter today, and we will go and pay him a visit. This largely started in that town of 312 people, and it is a beautiful town. Peter retired there, you know, leaving Melbourne for a quiet retirement, and then was faced with that pretty much in his backyard. It is tragic. At the time there was an article in the Age that spoke about this incident, and I will quote from the Age article, which said:

Beulah police have received multiple complaints …

The entire community came together. It was the whole town. It was the council. It was the Beulah police. It was everyone in that town that was outraged – not only outraged, because we can all be outraged from time to time, but highly concerned with what flying that flag can mean. To follow on from that quote:

Beulah police have received multiple complaints from neighbours about the flag over the past fortnight.

“We are currently investigating and awaiting legal advice as to what, if any, offences have been committed,” Leading Senior Constable Shayne Riggall said.

‘What, if any, offences’ had occurred. At the time they had not actually committed an offence, but it was the rallying and the voices of that small town, that beautiful town of Beulah, that got that flag taken down, and Peter was able to walk outside again. The fact that we now have provisions to act is really important.

I do want to touch on the member for Malvern’s amendment of course, which replaces the words ‘used by’ with the words ‘associated with’. This is really important to me because a month ago, when I got home after my 5-hour drive home after the last sitting week, when we were discussing this in the backyard with a couple of friends, we got into quite a robust discussion – I do not want to say an argument – that almost led to the ejection of one of our friends from our house and our life, because he could not quite understand what it meant, ‘used by’ the Nazis. He was talking about the symbols used by, but where does it stop? That is really broad. Although I argued for a couple of hours, quite frankly, this amendment actually puts that in a much tighter shell. So ‘associated with’ the Nazis and the evil and the hate that that carried certainly brings it together a lot more and makes it much more succinct.

After listening to everyone speak on this bill today I would hope that that amendment is supported, because it is actually really important. Do not get me wrong, this person that I was arguing with is not a bad person. They are not an evil person, and they are not a person filled with hate at all. They are someone that is of Aboriginal background that has been subjected to and knows very well the extent of discrimination, of racism and all that stuff. But he was just concerned about what the term ‘used by’ meant and where the parameters were for that, which is a valid point. Hindsight is always 20/20, so when you look back on it there is a valid point there, and I think this amendment covers that. So the wording of the member for Malvern’s amendment does narrow that argument somewhat.

I did want to keep my contribution brief today, but that has not occurred – what a surprise. But I did really want to acknowledge the township of Beulah in the Mallee, because I know that this was a source of attention for the town 3½ years ago that they probably did not want. But they felt the need – the council, the police members and the general community – because out in the Mallee, where towns are an hour or so apart, the community is all you have got, and if you do not stick together, then division can occur. When division is felt in a town of 312 people, give or take, depending on the season, it is felt most acutely. So they deserve recognition for this bill coming through this place today, they really do. For Peter, although he is in his 90s, his survival and his relocation to Beulah I know has had a profound impact not just on that Mallee town but on the entire state now with the symbol prohibition and now the Nazi salute prohibition of 2023. So I commend this bill and the amendment to the house.

Anthony CIANFLONE (Pascoe Vale) (18:57): I rise to support the Summary Offences Amendment (Nazi Salute Prohibition) Bill 2023. This is a bill that fulfils the Victorian government’s commitment to legislating a ban on the Nazi salute by prohibiting the public display or performance of any symbol or gesture used by the Nazi party or its paramilitary arms. In doing so I note that this bill has bipartisan support, which I commend and I acknowledge, particularly through the quite profound contributions that have been made from all sides of the house thus far, because we are at our very best as a Parliament when we can unite around such important and meaningful issues on behalf of our diverse and multicultural state.

In saying that, I still honestly find it very hard to fathom that we here in Victoria in 2023 are still fighting and pushing back against evil Nazi ideology following some of the most recent and disturbing incidents across this state, because along with our allies, valiant Australian men and women fought to defeat Nazi Germany during World War II from 1939 to 1945 – a war that ended 80 years ago, almost. Yet here we are in the Victorian Parliament today, in 2023, having to continue that fight to ensure that we never again even come close as a community to repeating the grave mistakes of the past or even permitting evil ideologies that should be consigned to the past to have any place in today’s modern Victoria. That all begins with recognising, calling out, stamping out and outlawing, if necessary, any signs of overt racist and bigoted behaviour that incites hate and violence espoused by however many or few people as early as possible, before it has any chance to take root or to take hold again. That all starts with words; it all starts with symbols; it all starts with actions.

That is why remembering, understanding and learning from history, however positive or negative, is fundamental to helping us all on the journey to building a better and more inclusive future, which is what we are all here to do. It is also fundamental to helping us understand the ideology that some in our community today still, sadly, continue to follow, preach, salute or be influenced by, which has led us to bringing in this bill.

So let us delve into a little bit of exactly what these neo-Nazis in modern-day Victoria are actually saluting. The National Socialist German Workers’ Party, or the Nazi party, was the radical far-right movement and political party led by Adolf Hitler, who along with his henchmen would go on to become the leaders of the biggest ever mass murderers in modern human history. First founded in 1920, the Nazi party originally attracted very little popular support. As I understand it, they were actually initially treated almost like a joke. However, under the banner of Nazi flags, symbols and the Nazi salute, the Nazis went on to build an ultranationalist narrative that weaponised the impacts of the Great Depression of 1929, the effects of the Treaty of Versailles, which Germany signed following the end of World War I, as well as the gradual and staged targeting of faith and cultural minority communities, namely the Jewish community, whom the Nazis increasingly and falsely blamed for the failures and shortcomings of the German state.

The DEPUTY SPEAKER: Order! I am required under sessional orders to interrupt business now. The member will have the call when we return to the matter.

Business interrupted under sessional orders.