Wednesday, 21 September 2022

Motions

Clerk of the Legislative Council

Ms SYMES (Northern Victoria—Leader of the Government, Attorney-General, Minister for Emergency Services) (17:47): I move, by leave:

That this house notes:

(1) the recent announcement that Mr Andrew Young will resign from the offices of Clerk of the Legislative Council and Clerk of the Parliaments and as the trusted adviser to the President and members of the Legislative Council;

(2) that Mr Young commenced his service to the Victorian Parliament with the Legislative Council in May 2005 and has served as Clerk of the Legislative Council since July 2014 and the Clerk of the Parliaments since August 2017;

and places on record its deep appreciation of the long and valuable services rendered by him to the Parliament and the state of Victoria.

In speaking to my motion I want to take the opportunity to personally thank Andrew for his commitment to the people of this chamber, the people of Victoria and indeed the Parliament over a reasonably lengthy period of time. I know he is incredibly uncomfortable sitting there as we talk about him, and I am taking great delight in this. But I do want to draw on some characteristics that come to mind when you think of Mr Young, and the things that come to mind are professional, knowledgeable, approachable, responsive, extremely tolerant and very fair. He has successfully navigated a range of topics in this chamber. The range of questions that he is asked, I am sure, could fill the next version of Erskine May.

Ms Shing interjected.

Ms SYMES: And Ms Shing is going to set you that challenge, I think, absolutely. She is ready for the next volume to devour.

But there have been plenty of challenges and a lot of unforeseen and unpredictable circumstances that he has had to lead his team through and indeed provide advice to us on, none more so than in the most recent years in relation to adapting the practices to ensure that members of this chamber and members of his team and those that come to Parliament are kept safe, particularly in the heights of the pandemic.

So to you, Mr Young, you should be rightly proud of your achievements. You have made an absolutely tremendous contribution to this Parliament and to Victoria, and I certainly wish you and your family all the best for the future.

Mr RICH-PHILLIPS (South Eastern Metropolitan) (17:50): I am pleased to rise and support this motion moved by the Leader of the Government to acknowledge Andrew Young’s service to the Parliament. I well remember the appointment of Mr Young as Clerk in 2014, because prior to that appointment appointing a Clerk was a bit like the accession of a monarch. It was very much apostolic succession: a Clerk retired and everyone else took a step up. The appointment of Andrew Young broke with that tradition, and it broke with that tradition for a very good reason. It was supported obviously by the President of the day, Mr Atkinson, but it was supported by all the party leaders in the chamber because we saw in Andrew somebody who was committed to the institution of Parliament and committed to continuing the traditions of this place and improving the operation of this place. It was absolutely supported across the chamber that taking Andrew as the Clerk would be the right thing to do.

We have seen since then Andrew’s commitment to this chamber but also his commitment to Westminster parliaments. Whether it is through the Australian and New Zealand Association of Clerks-at-the-Table—the association of clerks—or whether it is through the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, Andrew has continually shown his commitment to the institution of Parliament. And it is something that matters. Last week we had a procedure that we have not seen for 70 years with the transition of a monarch. That really highlighted why having someone who is knowledgeable and committed to the institution is important, and in Andrew we have had that. We have also had someone who has been committed to some excellent work with the Victorian Parliamentary Former Members Association and to doing a lot of work behind the scenes working with that association. I think that is something we will see more of in the next Parliament, and it is a great credit to Andrew that that work has been supported and carried out.

I would like to thank Andrew for his wise counsel and for his willingness to engage and debate on matters of parliamentary and constitutional propriety. It has always been very worthwhile to be able to have those discussions with Andrew around what sections of the constitution mean and whether a bill is in fact a taxing bill or not or an appropriation bill or not. We have had that numerous times. The Legislative Council has been very well served by Andrew Young as Clerk. He leaves large shoes to fill, and I wish him very well for his future.

Ms TIERNEY (Western Victoria—Minister for Training and Skills, Minister for Higher Education, Minister for Agriculture) (17:52): I wish to add comments of support, congratulations and great thanks for the efforts that Andrew has brought to this chamber. I agree with Mr Rich-Phillips in that Andrew’s commitment to the Westminster system and his understanding of it is unsurpassed in many ways. It has held him in very good stead in terms of providing advice to us, because he absolutely understands the genesis of the principles behind a lot of what the Westminster system represents. In terms of modernisation of some of the processes that we have wanted to bring about in this chamber, it has been important that the integrity of those principles has been maintained at the same time as we have been able to move ahead. I greatly appreciate that, but also his frank and considered advice while I was Deputy President and in other circumstances is much appreciated. The other thing is that his rigour in undertaking research to get to the nub of what the real issue is, I think, also unsurpassed. I thank you for that.

It is interesting that Andrew comes from Western Australia. In terms of the clerks fraternity, it is quite unusual because in terms of the public service and various other things there is often mobility between Victoria and New South Wales in particular. It is interesting to see that in terms of this area of expertise Western Australia plays a significant role. We will not call it the Western Australian mafia, Andrew, but the fact of the matter is that that group of people has held many parliaments in good stead for a long time, and I am sure that they will continue to do so. But I think it is important that we do give a shout-out to Western Australia in terms of leading the way.

I also personally want to thank you, just in terms of those MPs that have shown an interest from time to time in parliamentary processes or the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. You have also provided a lot of informal support and information to us when we have wanted to know more about how to get more involved and what is available not just here in Australia but also internationally. I know that Shaun and I have attended a number of conferences and courses that have held us in good stead, not just in terms of practices here but also in terms of our general thinking towards what can be possible.

So again, thank you for your contribution. It has been amazing, it has been very solid and it has been very considered. You will be very much missed, and we look forward to seeing you around. We wish you the very best for you and your family for your future, and indeed I hope that you can make a serious contribution once you have had a bit of a rest.

Mr LEANE (Eastern Metropolitan—Minister for Commonwealth Games Legacy, Minister for Veterans) (17:56): I promise to be very brief because I know people have got some important business. At the start of this term I said that we have the best boffins in the Commonwealth, and I meant that in terms of the clerks, who have obviously been led by Andrew and his trusty assistant, Anne. But what people did not see that I saw—and one thing that I give Andrew Young credit for as an example of his character—is that in the first COVID lockdown Andrew fought passionately for his staff so that none of them would be disadvantaged, and then he joined me in making sure that in other departments no-one there would be disadvantaged either.

A conversation I had with him—and MPs will be interested in this—was about when MPs leave this place and how they have great skills and should be assets to the community, but they cannot get a job because they have been MPs. Andrew and I with the past MPs association developed with Deakin Uni a paper, and apparently it is the first paper like this and has been discussed around the Commonwealth. Andrew told me that it has had international acclaim recently, this paper. So I suggested to Andrew that he and I should go on a TED Talk tour—around the world probably—to help out the world.

I also just wanted to finally say what a fantastic privilege it was working with Andrew and accessing his knowledge—not just at the time I was President but the whole time I have been here. When I was President, I had fun with him. As the bells were ringing, I would say to him, ‘I’m going to create a precedent today, Andrew’. I would not, but I would just watch him, and he would say, ‘Can you tell me? Can you tell me what it is?’. Anyway, I am sure he will be greatly missed by all of us.

Mr LIMBRICK (South Eastern Metropolitan) (17:58): I also rise in strong support of this motion. As a new member of Parliament, Andrew was one of the first people that I met in this place, and he has been invaluable in providing guidance and education, which I think is a really important function of what his role is. It has been invaluable in proving the extent of my own ignorance of parliamentary processes, but also his education has shown me just how important the parliamentary system is and given me a deeper appreciation of what we have in this state and throughout the Commonwealth, and it has made me really consider how we need to look at these traditions with more respect than many people do. I think that the role of the Clerk in many ways is to be a guardian of this history. He has made me very conscious of that, and for that I thank him.

Also, on a personal level, I would like to thank Mr Young for the many times he has helped me, including in times when I have been in stressful situations. I am sure that in future we may talk about this, but there have been many, many situations. I spoke to Mr Young only today about how I do not think that anyone considered that he would be out the front of Parliament trying to convince police not to arrest MPs for being on the steps of Parliament, but Mr Quilty and I received his guidance and advice in that particular situation also, regardless of the fact that it was at night and quite a stressful situation. For all those things, I thank him. I wish him all the best in the future, and I am sure he will shine no matter what path he chooses from here.

Ms PATTEN (Northern Metropolitan) (18:00): I would like to join in this motion. I stand here as someone who has put up a number of private members bills and done a number of things which I think even Mr Young would have said were precedents. When I was elected in 2014 it was probably the first time we had seen a significant number of crossbenchers in this place. It did change the balance of this place, and Andrew guided us through that. I was probably one of the few crossbenchers who was an Acting President as well, and his advice from where he was sitting was extremely welcomed. As someone that does not have the backbone of a large party behind me to guide me through the perils of the standing orders and the perils of the parliamentary processes, I have leaned heavily on Andrew and the rest of the clerks. I would just like to express my gratitude. I am looking forward to seeing Andrew without a heavy black cape.

Mr FINN (Western Metropolitan) (18:02): I rise to congratulate Andrew Young on the job that he has done as Clerk and to compliment him on his knowledge of this place and how it runs and for keeping some members—I will not say who—on track. I have to say there have been times when I have been mid-flight and I have looked over towards Andrew and he has been in deep conversation with the President. I have thought to myself, ‘I’m in trouble here’, and sure enough I was. I would like to compliment Andrew, because he almost got all of those right—not all, but almost all. As I say, his contribution to this place is quite substantial and significant and will be remembered for quite some time. It is really something. I take my hat off to him. He has just done a brilliant job as Clerk. It is a great personal disappointment to me that he is leaving, but I think it is a great disappointment to the house and to the Parliament that he is leaving as well.

Can I just add that Mr Rich-Phillips may have been talking about the standing orders and what is a money bill and what is not a money bill and so forth, but Andrew and I spent a fair bit of time talking football too. Many a time we would see each other in the car park, and an hour later we would still be talking about what happened in the 1974 grand final. That I will miss as well.

Andrew, I wish you all the very best for your future endeavours. I am sure whatever you turn your hand to you will be successful. I thank you on behalf of everybody, and obviously myself, for everything that you have contributed as Clerk and before that to the Victorian Parliament.

Mr DAVIS (Southern Metropolitan—Leader of the Opposition) (18:04): I am very pleased in one sense to rise to compliment Andrew on the enormous work that he did in this place but also deeply saddened to lose him. I do think we owe a great debt to Andrew. He came to this place in July 2014, and Bruce was President at the time.

Andrew, your wisdom, your good advice, your sense, your preparedness to advise and the integrity with which you have gone around these things I think cannot be faulted in any way. I really do believe that we can be very proud of the contribution that you have made, and you should take that away from this place. I did say to you earlier in the day that it is not too late to reconsider. We could still retain the Clerk; it is not too late.

One of the things I think with clerks is that it is that deep knowledge that is important and the ability to help people find a way through. Standing orders and sessional orders should not be a blockage. There should be a way through in a structured way, and Andrew has over the years been extremely thoughtful and knowledgeable in advising how to achieve things in a thoughtful and proper way. I should say that not just as Clerk here but as Clerk of the Parliaments he has done an amazing job. He is respected internationally, and I think that that is important, that this Parliament is able to project its abilities and knowledge base more broadly. I, for one, will deeply miss you here, Andrew, and I know that your contribution has been amazing. Thank you, and it is not too late.

Mr BOURMAN (Eastern Victoria) (18:06): I will make a short contribution. Eight years ago when I came to this place I thought I knew a bit about law, being an ex-copper and all that sort of thing, but I knew nothing. But for everything I needed to know I went and saw Andrew. I never really expected to be a parliamentarian—it kind of worked as planned instead of not—but Andrew and his staff took all of us new crossbenchers under their wing and looked after us. It would have been impossible to do it without the good grace, the good humour and basically just tolerating a whole lot of people that really had no great idea about how a place like this worked. It is not just standing orders and policies, procedures, conventions and all that sort of stuff, but in the time that I have been here I have grown to respect your knowledge. I do not think you have ever not been able to answer anything that I have asked either off the top of your head or within about 30 seconds of contemplation, and that is amazing given the amount we have to know here.

I heard something about characteristics before. You have got the most amazing poker face, because when stuff is going down in here you are sitting there and you are just a beacon of serenity. I do not know what you are thinking. Right now is not a good time to say it, but I do not know what you are thinking. You are just sitting there like a statue and no-one would ever guess. We are going to miss you.

Ms LOVELL (Northern Victoria) (18:08): I rise to join this motion. Like Mr Davis, I am very happy to congratulate Andrew on his service to the Parliament but very saddened to be losing Andrew. Andrew has been a bit like the Queen. The Queen was one constant in my life until just recently, and I think Andrew and I arrived in this Parliament at a very similar time. Andrew and I think Greg Mills have been the two constant staff of the Parliament that have been here for the 20 years that I have been here.

Andrew, your knowledge, as everyone has said, is just amazing, and we will certainly miss you here in the Victorian Parliament, but I am sure that everybody here joins me in wishing you all the best for whatever you choose to do in the future. I think your family will be the winner out of this; they might get to enjoy a little bit more of you. For the rest of us, we will struggle on without you. We would love you to change your mind, but we wish you all the best for the future. Personally I would like to thank you for all the assistance that you have given me as Deputy President over the past four years.

Mr ATKINSON (Eastern Metropolitan) (18:09): Andrew Young was probably one of my best decisions in so much as I had the opportunity to choose a Clerk. Certainly I had a reference panel and consulted with the leaders of the parties that were in this place at that time, and there was agreement from all that Andrew was an applicant for that position who would bring a vision to this Parliament to take us forward. At the time I do not think that we appreciated just how much we would rely on that vision and that ability to be a change maker for the better. Andrew had already served this Parliament, having done an apprenticeship in Western Australia, as Ms Tierney referred to, and came here well credentialled. Under Wayne Tunnecliffe he obviously blossomed in terms of his experience and the contribution that he was able to make in the role as an assistant clerk. Andrew was a very easy choice to make when it came to the retirement of Wayne Tunnecliffe and needing to find somebody who would continue with the good judgement and the goodwill that Wayne Tunnecliffe had brought to this place. Andrew, without a doubt, is a very talented person and a very wise person.

I do not want to repeat what others have said, but I certainly concur with the comments that have been made by various speakers in the course of this motion. But one thing I would say is that it is interesting that people are never aware of exactly the full extent of a job that people do. In Andrew’s case there would be many people who simply think that this chamber is the world, that this is the job. But, as some other members have alluded to, his work has encompassed so many other facets of not just this Parliament’s management but contributions to parliaments around the world. We have, through the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, a significant relationship with a number of Pacific Islands countries and broader into areas such as Kenya, Botswana and Myanmar where we have provided support. Andrew has certainly been a contributor to the programs that have enabled those parliaments to either establish—re-establish as in Fiji—or build their resources and their talent base. And through other organisations as well, as was mentioned, such as the Australia and New Zealand Association of Clerks-at-the-Table, which is a parliamentary clerks junkie sort of role—they get off on all sorts of interesting, quirky things that happen in parliament. But he has made a great contribution in that area to the Australasian Study of Parliament Group, and coming back to this Parliament, both as Clerk of this house and as Clerk of the Parliaments, he has been a significant contributor to the management of the Parliament overall.

Whilst we have three departments, they work collaboratively, and Andrew’s contribution over the time that he has been the Clerk of this house has been very significant—significant in a time of change, in a time of challenge. Some of that change has been in terms of even the personnel of this place, which has been significant and could not possibly have been anticipated eight, 10 years ago. But Andrew has been able to work through that. Obviously COVID—who would have believed that we would have the sorts of challenges that have occurred as a result of that and having to think differently about the way this place should and could operate? That is really something that has been, arguably, very difficult for parliaments to do—making changes historically. They evolve, but ever so slowly, glacially, and yet in this period under Andrew’s clerkship we have had significant change driven partly by his vision, which was very much part of the line of questioning at his interview for the job, and certainly by the fact that he has brought that experience from the other places where he has worked, contributed and observed back to the benefit of this Parliament.

This Parliament is much the richer, much the better, for the contribution of Andrew Young as Clerk over this past seven years or so and indeed the time before he took the main role. Can I join with those others here to extend my best wishes to you and your family for the future. I am disappointed that my choice for Clerk has decided to leave quite so early, because I think that you had much more to contribute, but no doubt your talent will be applied to the benefit of this community in other ways. Thank you for your work. Thank you to your family for the support of your work here. Thank you for the contribution that you have made to the development of so many of our staff and our organisation, and all the best, Andrew, going forward.

Dr RATNAM (Northern Metropolitan) (18:16): I too, on behalf of the Greens, my current and also former colleagues, want to join in this motion and echo the sentiments that have been shared already in this chamber this afternoon. Thank you, Mr Young—Andrew—for your service. Reflecting on your service here, I am reflecting that there is a special group of people in this place who are and must be the stewards of the integrity of this institution, and, Andrew, you and your team have certainly exemplified this at every single turn. Your work has allowed people and the Victorian people to trust and have confidence in the work that we do, and we are in a stronger position because of the work of you and your team that you have led. I just want to thank you so much for your service, your expertise, your wisdom and your counsel, shepherding us through some pretty challenging and tricky times at times but always trying to support and enhance all the work that we do. I just want to wish you all the very best on behalf of the Greens.

Dr CUMMING (Western Metropolitan) (18:17): Thank you, Andrew. Look at that smile. Mr Young and I met at Parliament kindergarten the day before I was sworn in when I had to walk straight up to Mr Young and say, ‘My biggest problem is I think Derryn Hinch is going to do me a favour and disendorse me. What’s going to happen tomorrow when I get sworn in as an independent, and who should I tell?’. And Andrew was absolutely delightful in helping on that particular day, the days after that and then the whole four years, every time I had a problem, giving me that honesty and integrity and making me feel calm around seeing some of the most dishonest things I have ever seen. But thank you, Mr Young. You promised me that I may get one of your black jackets for Halloween, and if there is one kicking around this place that I can use on 31 October, I really would appreciate it. And, yes, we both are not morning people. You are starting to come alive. Enjoy the rest of the time with your family.

Ms SYMES (Northern Victoria—Leader of the Government, Attorney-General, Minister for Emergency Services) (18:18): That was a lovely tribute to Andrew. And thank you to everyone who made contributions. You are still a little bit red, but that is a good thing. There is lots of love in the room for you, so thank you so much on behalf of the government once again.

I want to take the opportunity briefly to extend that goodwill to the broader Parliament in a brief summing up. To Anne Sargent—amazing. To your team, you are exceptional, and we all appreciate the hard work that you guys put in. The full team of clerks, the committee staff, the table office staff—teams of great people who have been incredible in their stewardship and wise counsel throughout the 59th Parliament.

I think at the end of every term it is always described as, ‘That was a challenging Parliament’, but this has to trump them. I am not letting anybody else take that mantle. The 59th Parliament has been the most challenging. To that end I do want to extend my thanks on behalf of the chamber to Greg, Chris, Patrick, Philip, Peter and Jim, amazing people who we love to see each and every sitting day. To catering, the library, security, protective service officers, maintenance, garden staff and Hansard, thank you; you all deserve the utmost thanks and respect and praise. Many of them are here when we are not, particularly Hansard, who are here after hours and are subjected to so much that they do not deserve. Thank you to them.

To all members, all the best for the coming months. Many of you have really assisted me in my role of ensuring that this place operates as effectively as possible, and we have completed a lot of really good work on behalf of Victorians. There are several members that we know will not be with us next term, and we will hear from some of them shortly—obviously Mr Rich-Phillips, Mr Ondarchie, Ms Burnett-Wake, Mr Atkinson and Mr Somyurek. Part of the reason I am hijacking the opportunity to do this now at the end of Andrew’s motion and not later in the day is that we will hear from Mr Gepp and Mr Elasmar, and I know that after I have heard from them, I will not get through what I am trying to get through now. They are exceptional humans. To the President, the ascension, the nomination of your role here was met with absolute multiparty—

A member: A standing ovation.

Ms SYMES: A standing ovation; I will take up the interjection. You have not wavered by losing any of that support from any person in this chamber, I can guarantee that. You are an exceptional person. Geppy, your contributions, your wit, your compassion—that heart—will be missed from this place. My Northern Victoria colleague, personally we will absolutely miss you. But I will absolutely be keeping in contact with you both.

Although not likely to go far, I do want to make the point that this chamber will be worse off with Ms Taylor joining the Assembly. There of course may be some people that are here today who as a result of electoral outcomes may not get to return to this place, and to those people I express my regards. This chamber is a reflection of diverse and vibrant democracy. We all come with different perspectives, values and motivations. But on the whole I know that we are all here to do our very best for Victorians, and I thank everyone for those endeavours. There are some remarkable people in this place.

With the indulgence of the chamber, to my Labor team, you are the best. I am so proud of you and everything that we have achieved. I want to see you back on this side of the chamber post November.

Motion agreed to.

The PRESIDENT: On that basis, I call the Clerk to stand. I do not want to repeat what I said to you this morning, but I believe I should repeat that you always put the integrity of Parliament first, and you should be as proud of that as we are proud of you. On behalf of everyone, thank you very much and good luck.

Members applauded.