Tuesday, 4 March 2025

Bills

Terrorism (Community Protection) and Control of Weapons Amendment Bill 2024

Second reading

Debate resumed on motion of Anthony Carbines:

That this bill be now read a second time.

David SOUTHWICK (Caulfield) (13:23): I rise to make some comments on the Terrorism (Community Protection) and Control of Weapons Amendment Bill 2024. Could I also just at the outset thank Ben Howard, who has been interning in my office, from the US, who has helped put some notes together on this bill, and also the department for the briefing that we had on this bill.

There are two main components to this bill. One is dealing with the Terrorism (Community Protection) Act 2003, and the other is dealing with the Control of Weapons Act 1990. They are very distinct, with no overlay, and I will treat them both separately as we go through the discussion today. In the first part I want to offer up some textual amendments, which will go through shortly.

Firstly, on the Terrorism (Community Protection) Act changes, there is provision for two therapeutic intervention pathways for Victorians who are at risk of radicalising towards violent extremism. These pathways are voluntary, and there is a voluntary case management scheme that actually manages the participants of the scheme.

As part of it, the justice area gives a support and engagement order as part of the program that they go on.

The bill also establishes the Countering Violent Extremism Multi-agency Panel. This provides advice and case management oversight to the Secretary of the Department of Justice and Community Safety regarding coordinating the services and case management of individuals subject to the voluntary case management scheme, which has been operational since September 2022. Currently the eligibility criteria for the scheme prevents individuals who may benefit from therapeutic intervention from being eligible for and participating in the program. This includes individuals who are at an early stage of their trajectory towards final extremism through to those who may have previously engaged in countering violent extremism programs.

This proposed act will amend the Terrorism (Community Protection) Act 2003 to further provide for the functions of the secretary under part 4A of the act; further provide for the Countering Violent Extremism Multi-agency Panel; further provide for voluntary case management; make minor amendments as a consequence of the amendment of the Australian Security Intelligence Organisation Act 1979, a Commonwealth act; and amend the Control of Weapons Act 1990, which we will talk about later.

One of the elements with this is that this is obviously a program that is trying to deradicalise young people or certainly ensure that hopefully young people particularly do not end up on a pathway that would lead them into extremism. This is very important, and we certainly support any mechanisms that will try to deradicalise people in any way, shape or form. We see that we have had real issues in Victoria and Australia in recent times. We have seen some horrific acts from radicalised extremists, and whatever we can do to peel that back I think is really, really important.

But what this program has been doing has, for a whole range of reasons – again this is something that the government has been managing – not had the uptake that one would hope that it would have. So there have not been the numbers on this particular program. I understand from the briefing that there were six active participants and two new participants, so we are dealing with about eight participants. I am not sure in terms of total funding, but I know that the government had invested $1.2 million into the program in previous times but that the $1.2 million has currently not been available for the program and that there has been a real leaning on the federal government to provide the money for this program.

We do have concerns, firstly, that we have got a government that want to expand a program and on one hand they are indicating that it is a program that will have results and they support it but they do not want to put money into it. So the real question is: why are we amending legislation today on one hand but on the other hand we have a Labor government that are not prepared to put their money where their mouth is and invest in the program? I would hope during the debate we will hear from the government to understand whether the $1.2 million that was taken out of this program will be put back into the program. It is no use expanding a program if you do not have the money; it is pretty short-sighted. I know that we are in a budget crisis in this state and that we are in a crime crisis as well. I would hope that one would outweigh the other – that community safety would certainly outweigh anything else – and that there is money in here.

That brings me to the contextual amendments that I wish to circulate, and these deal with very much this part of the bill.

Amendments circulated under standing orders.

It is amending a new clause:

Division heading preceding clause 52, after “Minor” insert “and other”.

And the new clause is:

After section 38A of the Terrorism (Community Protection) Act 2003 insert –

“38B Review of operation of Act as amended by Terrorism (Community Protection) and Control of Weapons Amendment Act 2025

(1) The Minister must cause a review of the operation of this Act as amended by the Terrorism (Community Protection) and Control of Weapons Amendment Act 2025 to be commenced within 2 years of the day on which Part 2 of that Act comes into operation.

(2) The Minister must cause a copy of the report of the review to be laid before each House of the Parliament within 14 days after its completion, but no later than the third anniversary of the day on which Part 2 of the Terrorism (Community Protection) and Control of Weapons Amendment Act 2025 came into operation.”.’.

The reason why we are calling for this review is that we are not sure what success looks like here, and I am not sure whether the government is sure of what success looks like. They want to expand the program. They do not have the numbers. The briefing suggested that they wanted 30 on the program – they have got eight. Eight is a long way away from 30, so we would hope that with the changes they get more people on the program.

The other element, as I pointed out, is that there is no money for this program. I think in two years it is only fair that this program is reviewed, and if it has not had success in terms of uptake in the people on the program or if it has not had the money, then it needs to be reviewed, in terms of the future of the program. I think that is only fair, and I hope that the government will support that, because it is no use having a program if you do not put your money where your mouth is. I want to leave that there. We might have the opportunity a bit later to come back to it, but I want to talk about the second part of this bill, which is the controlled weapons part of this bill.

This part of the bill introduces further measures impacting planned and unplanned designated area weapons searches to give police greater flexibility to combat weapons offending when and where there is heightened risk to community safety. The bill amends the planned and unplanned designated area scheme in six distinct ways to improve operational flexibility and police responsiveness to weapons offending risk. We are in a crime crisis. We are seeing weapons used each and every day, and I will talk about that shortly. Not a day goes by – and I know because just about every morning I am calling the radio and unfortunately responding to another machete attack, another crime crisis or another young offender, who has been out on bail again and again and again, going into a home and stealing a car. It is horrible. We are seeing it right across everyone’s electorates. We have got to do something about it. That is why looking at giving police more search powers is really important. We advocate for that. We think it is really important. I have looked at other states that have the likes of Jack’s Law. In Queensland a young person was stabbed multiple times to death, which prompted Jack’s Law coming into play. These things are really important. We should always look at different ways to strengthen the law.

I will say up-front that machetes are still not a prohibited weapon – that is a real concern, a missed opportunity in this bill today and a missed opportunity to ensure machetes are a prohibited weapon – and I am going to talk about that as part of a reasoned amendment that I will propose shortly.

The bill removes, firstly, the requirement to publish a notice of declaration of a planned designated area in a daily newspaper circulating throughout Victoria and in a daily newspaper circulating outside of the metropolitan area. Putting things in the newspapers, reading about them, is yesterday, and we do need a more timely response when police want to actively conduct operations. That is why this is really important. It is consistent with the approach taken by other jurisdictions and recognises a shift away from hardcopy newspapers and moves things online. The bill will not alter the additional requirement to publish a notice of planned declaration in the Government Gazette, as this is the standard legislative approach for providing notice of this type of declaration and provides legal certainty for the exercise of search powers in designated areas.

The second part amends the provisions that currently exist for planned event declarations to provide that each period of an event declaration operates during the event and during any time before and after the event that the Chief Commissioner of Police considers reasonable. At present, event declarations may only operate strictly during the exact timing of the event itself. This amendment will allow for the chief commissioner to determine an appropriate period of time before and after an event for an event declaration to additionally operate to maximise community safety – a planned event.

We saw it at Land Forces just recently. We knew that that was happening. We had extremists that decided to protest outside the Land Forces event, and there were real concerns in terms of weapons and other things that they may have. We do not know how long these extremists are going to be protesting. There could be an event declaration and then all of a sudden it needs to go beyond that time. We might initially think the protest is going to be there till 5 o’clock; they are there till 9 or 10 o’clock. You need flexibility so police can do a search operation should they find that necessary. And that is really, really important, particularly when you have extremists that turn up to these kinds of events wanting to cause trouble. We must make sure the community feels safe, and that is why having this search power in planned events is really, really important.

The third part of this is that significant crowd numbers may congregate before an event or linger afterwards, or it may be important to provide a safe environment for ingress and egress of events with high attendance numbers where an event occurs at a remote location with limited entry and exit points, which is not uncommon with rural music festivals. This bill gives the chief commissioner flexibility to tailor the duration of the declaration based on the unique characteristics of the event and the particular risk profile. Again, it is really, really important to make sure that police have those powers, particularly when people are coming or going from these events.

The fourth part is that another amendment will enable planned event declarations to be made for new and emerging events based on intelligence information of high identified risks. These planned declarations may be for events that have been marred by violence or disorder with weapons at previous occasions. It allows the chief commissioner to declare an area where an event will be held if the commissioner is satisfied from the information known to the chief commissioner that there is a likelihood that violence or disorder involving the use of weapons will occur in that area. The period of intended operation for a declaration is an intelligence-led approach, placing police on the front foot to combat the threat of weapons relating to violence and disorder.

I am not sure whether this was used on this particular occasion, but we did have a Never Again is Now rally in the city with thousands of people, which was against being un-Australian. ‘Stop the hate, mate’ I think was the term that was used, which was against the racism and antisemitism that we have seen of late. There were a number of violence and disorder incidents. There was a lady at that particular time who was in a wheelchair who was pushed, and shoved, she had her flag stolen from her and it was burnt. This would be an incident where you would have extremists at the event. You want to be able to have search powers, and that is why this part is very, very important.

We have seen 72 weeks of these protests in the city – 72 weeks – with 18,000 police shifts patrolling these protests in the CBD. Police need the flexibility when you have extremists that are leading these protests, and I call out the Greens as part of that. When they are up the front leading some of these protests – you know what? – you need search powers, because some of the things that I have heard people say and we have all heard people say are very threatening and very concerning, and police need to have the power to do their job.

The fifth part is that the bill promotes a sustained effort to detect and deter weapons related to violence or disorder in areas of high risk through reducing the time that must elapse between declarations of plans in designated areas. At present, police are unable to conduct a planned operation in an area until a minimum of 10 days have elapsed. What this does is reduce the minimum 10-day gap to 12 hours. So if it is going to be over a prolonged period, it allows them to have another order to be able to reduce the timeframe to search for weapons. That is really important in terms of having a more consistent police presence at random weapons searching. It just closes that gap and allows that flexibility.

And the sixth part of this, also consistent with some other jurisdictions, is to enhance operational flexibility. The maximum duration of both planned and unplanned designations of areas will increase from 12 to 24 hours. What this allows is a maximum of a 24-hour window. The chief commissioner must continue to limit the period for each designation to no longer than is reasonably necessary to enable police and protective service officers to effectively respond to a threat of violence or disorder involving the use of weapons. This change will provide greater public safety and reassurance in circumstances where there is a significant event of violence or disorder, including a critical incident of high-profile crime in relation to risk, and Victoria Police will be in a better position to tailor both planned and unplanned operations.

We saw a few months back a group of neo-Nazis came dressed up all in black. They were at Flinders Street station. They did their event. They then went onto the train platform, actually onto a train, and they were harassing people on the train. They were fully masked. They were all in black. They were wearing backpacks. Who knows what they were doing or what they had or what their intentions were? Again, this is an unplanned situation. The police need search powers to be able to deal with that. Some of that would be covered in their existing powers, but again what this does is send a very clear message for police to be able to do their job and have that flexibility. Knife crime is through the roof.

I want to circulate my reasoned amendment now. I move:

That all the words after ‘That’ be omitted and replaced with the words ‘this house refuses to read this bill a second time until the government considers further options to tackle controlled weapons and ensure community safety during planned events.’

One of the key elements of this is the actual weapons that we are searching for. I know we have had a couple of attempts at this, and I hope this time around we are able to look at this in terms of making machetes prohibited weapons. I go back to my good friend Nick McGowan in the other place, who is currently representing the area of Ringwood as the local member amongst his other tasks. He wrote to the chief commissioner a few months back, and he said that while the draft legislation makes weapons illegal for 18-year-olds to purchase for anybody to carry around in communities and in our streets without lawful excuse, such as relevant and related employment, he is concerned to make it a prohibited weapon, effectively banning it from the state, making it illegal to sell to a person of any age in Victoria. What we are talking about is not just saying somebody under 18 cannot buy it; the question is why somebody under 18 – or over 18 for that matter – is carrying a machete around in the first place. This is an opportunity to make it an offence to actually be carrying a machete around, full stop. That is what we should do right now: ban the machete, full stop. It is not back in the 1800s when you were farming, you had your machete and you were using that for your crops. People running around the streets of Melbourne, heading into people’s homes in the middle of the night, carrying a machete – there is no reason at all why they should have one. The response that my good friend Nick McGowan received was referred back from the police commissioner to the Minister for Police:

[QUOTE AWAITING VERIFICATION]

The important clarification in the definition enhances the community’s understanding that machetes may only be possessed to carry while used for a lawful excuse and cannot be sold to children or purchased by them.

I cannot think what a lawful excuse would be when you are roaming around the middle of the night with one in your backpack. If someone turns up and says, ‘I’m going home to do the gardening,’ is that a lawful excuse? For heaven’s sake, we have got to get rid of these machetes once and for all.

I want to highlight just a few examples. From an article of 12 February, ‘Teenager who attacked man with machete in St Kilda denied bail’:

A 15-year-old boy who hit a stranger over the head with a machete in Melbourne’s inner-south has been denied bail.

The boy approached a 39-year-old man in St Kilda at about 9pm on January 12, asking for his keys and phone.

After the man attempted to distance himself from the boy, the teen hit him across the head with a machete.

The court heard a “large number of people” witnessed the attack, and that the boy was on bail at the time of the incident.

It gets worse: he was on bail for the possession of a controlled weapon in the Children’s Court and a slew of other incidents that had occurred over the course of last year, including that he brought a hunting knife to school, was involved in a carjacking as a lookout and drove a stolen car. This is an example, and what did the judge say?

You can’t keep getting into trouble because when you do … people get hurt.

The real victim, he said, of the machete attack was clearly scared. ‘You really just have to stop,’ the judge told the teenager. ‘You really just have to stop’? Well, I will tell you what: words are not enough. Saying that somebody has to stop when they keep getting bailed, when they keep coming out with dangerous weapons and hitting people over the head with them is just absolutely inexcusable.

But let us continue.

On 24 February police arrested a man and a woman after a string of violent home invasions where an elderly woman was allegedly struck with a machete and assaulted in Melbourne’s south-east. Two people have been arrested after a spate of terrifying home invasions across Melbourne’s south-east over the weekend. The offences include several alleged aggravated burglaries, including one on Friday in Keysborough where a 73-year-old man was slashed in the face with a machete. In the final incident on Sunday night, police have alleged a 77-year-old woman – so we had a man and now a 77-year-old woman – was also confronted and assaulted by the pair before being struck with a machete. What the hell is going on here? What is going on when this kind of stuff is happening? It is out of control.

Then we had two arrested after a carjacking in Hoppers Crossing. A teenager was one of two arrested by police after an aerial follow in Melbourne’s north-west overnight. Police said two occupants from a Corolla who were allegedly armed with machetes got out of the car and approached a 20-year-old Hillside man who had just parked his car on the side of the road. The offenders chased and assaulted the 20-year-old before stealing his keys, according to the police. The car was abandoned by the occupants in a nearby service station on the way to a cemetery.

If you thought that was not enough, here comes another one: again only last week a man’s face was slashed and a woman’s hand cut in a random machete attack in Melbourne’s south-east. Two offenders fled the scene in a white Subaru, which was stolen during a terrifying home invasion in Prahran. The bloody aftermath of the random daylight attack remained today in a Cheltenham car wash, after a 37-year-old woman was slashed with a machete.

These are only in the last few weeks. I did not give you a 12-month summary; I have just given you the last couple of weeks of machete attacks here in Melbourne. So this is a priority; this is urgent. This is why we need to support the reasoned amendment that I am putting forward: to ensure that machetes are made a prohibited weapon. If the government are serious, they will support this amendment. If the government want to get dangerous knives off the street, they will support this amendment. No more talk. We have heard the Premier talk; we have heard the Minister for Police talk. People are sick of talk; they want action. This is a way to do it. We can do it in a bipartisan way today. We can get machetes off the streets once and for all and make sure they are banned, full stop. There is no reason for them – no reason to have them, no reason to sell them, no reason to carry them. Make it simple, not an excuse, like we have got at the moment. We have got to get machetes off the street, and that is what we are calling for in this proposed change to the legislation. This is really important. We are facing a crime crisis here in Victoria. There are real concerns that not enough is being done to fix this. I know and certainly we have spoken to a number of people that think we have got to do more and think this government has got to do more.

There are two important parts of the bill that we have spoken about today. There are two very distinct areas. I will come back to terrorism, which is where we started. I just want to allude to some of the issues particularly since 7 October. I know it is not directly related, but it is in some respects in terms of the extremism that we are seeing on our streets. We saw it in some of our schools in Brighton with some of the attacks on kids, and I believe that some of these changes were part of that as well. When you have got young people that are spewing hate, when they are being uneducated – I will not call it ‘educated at home’, but I will call it ‘uneducated’ – whatever they are being taught at home, whatever they being taught with their friends, whatever way that they are being radicalised, it has got to stop. It does stop with education. It does stop with programs. I am very, very keen on hearing more from the Department of Justice and Community Safety about what they are doing. We want to work with the government to ensure that we deradicalise young people from ultimately committing serious, horrible attacks on individuals. It has got to stop, and we will do whatever it takes to do that. I say that in a true bipartisan way. We will do that; we must do that. I put the offer on the table today: whatever briefings the government can provide, whatever information they can give me when it comes to some of these programs to deradicalise young people, let me understand what is going on so we can help.

There are lots of people in the community that want help as well. There are a lot of not-for-profits and a lot of philanthropists in Victoria that have had enough of the radicalisation, of the extremism, of the division and of the hate. This is a great opportunity to do something about that, and we can do it together. It is not just about legislation, it is not just about money, but it is about expertise, experience and providing support, mentoring and role models for some of these young people that have lost their way, because the role models they have at the moment are the wrong ones. I have seen some of the stuff that is spewed out on the football ground – a 10-year-old kid spewing hate out to another person because they are Jewish and they are wearing a skullcap on their head, calling them a ‘bloody disgusting Jew’. A 10-year-old – how does a 10-year-old hear that, understand that or even know who they are playing football with? That has come from somewhere. And it is not just my community – it is not just the Jewish community; it is all communities. It does not matter whether you are Muslim, Hindu, whatever you may be in terms of your faith, background or where you are from, if you have got people that are attacking you both verbally and physically, something needs to change. They are getting the wrong education and the wrong message. Again, whether it has come from their friends or from their homes, wherever it is from, it has got to stop. Programs are good. The government is doing it. Let us fund them. As I said when I started this today, let us fund them, let us support them and let us make sure we deradicalise young people and stop them ending up in a really bad downward spiral effect of hate and division, because we do not need that – we definitely do not need that.

Just finishing on the knife crime stuff: it is the most serious thing that we are experiencing now. Not a day goes by when we do not see another knife crime here in Victoria. People’s homes are being ransacked in the middle of the night in such a brazen way, with some family member in their bedroom having someone stand over them with a machete or a large knife. That has got to stop. When somebody walks into a house with a machete, there have to be serious consequences. Whether it be on the streets, which are largely what we are talking about, or at train stations, shopping centres, sports precincts or entertainment precincts, no matter whether it is in a planned way or it is an unplanned event, police need to have the powers to search and ultimately confiscate and arrest. They have got to have those powers. We have got to get these dangerous knives off the streets. Whatever we can do to fix that, we should.

I will just finally mention: this is a great opportunity on top of everything to bring in move-on laws. That is another part of this as well. When we have got people, extremists particularly, who want to disrupt and stop people from doing what they need to do, the government could also support our move-on laws. There are two things that we could do as part of these reasoned amendments, and they are banning the machete and bringing in move-on laws. Those two things would go a long way to disrupt the vision that we have in our community at the moment and restore a balanced and more inclusive society and ensure, finally, that we have community safety in Victoria. We do not have it at the moment. We have a good opportunity to get it, but we have got to work together to do that. We have got to fund the police, we have got to give the police the powers and ultimately we have got to change the court system so that there are consequences for those people that commit violent crimes. Enough is enough. Victorians have had enough. We have got to ensure that we have safer streets, and at the moment that is severely lacking here in Victoria.

Sarah CONNOLLY (Laverton) (13:53): I too rise to speak on the Terrorism (Community Protection) and Control of Weapons Amendment Bill 2024, and I am really pleased to rise to speak on this bill. This is another bill where our government has listened, not only to the community but also to Victoria Police. This is a bill that is all about our government going ahead and cracking down on crime, cracking down on offenders, trying to prevent people who are likely to get engaged in crime from doing that in the first place and also trying to deradicalise some of our youth. This is an excellent bill, and it is an excellent time to bring it here before the house. We take crime and offending, in relation to the many offences that this bill is cracking down on, incredibly seriously, which is why time and time again before this house we are here debating bills that have been put before the house that have gone through consultation with Victoria Police and that give them the powers that they need to crack down on crime on our local streets.

I talk about that quite passionately, because when I am out and about in my community I have lots of conversations about crime, particularly around youth offending and knives. This bill, I am really pleased to say – and I know my community will really be happy to hear – means we are going ahead and introducing amendments so police can stop and search and look for weapons, including knives. That is going to be really important for my local community. This is not just about preventing crimes from happening in the first place but this is also about ensuring that our community feel safe in their local neighbourhoods and streets, many of them where they grew up and where they continue to reside with their growing families.

I do want to make a couple of remarks about the deradicalisation amendments that we are putting through in this bill. We recognise the need for therapeutic intervention for those people who may be vulnerable to violent extremism. It is something that is absolutely appalling to think about in our community, and the previous speaker has talked at length about some of the abhorrent things that even 10-year-olds say at the sides of sporting games. These are the sorts of actions and words that lead to terrible things in our community that should not be happening, but it is really important that this government has acknowledged that some of these things are happening in our communities. Whether you are of Jewish faith or of Islamic faith, we are doing everything we can to crack down and provide better protection for folks.

I want to say a couple of things about Victoria’s voluntary case management scheme, which has been in operation since 2022. It is a voluntary program that provides tailored intervention and wraparound support for people at risk of radicalisation. Support includes psychological counselling, career counselling, mentoring, tutoring, legal aid, access to community sports groups and the like. This scheme exists to support people who are at risk of or are actually radicalising towards violent extremism. This is about preventing terrible action from being taken before it actually happens. It connects these kids with the services they need and identifies ways to reconnect them with our community and be more included in our community. It is really important to remember that the scheme is voluntary and it complements the tremendous work that is being done by Victoria Police with high-risk individuals. These amendments will make changes to the operation of the scheme to ensure best practice at all times.

I want to take a moment to give a big shout-out to the amazing men and women that make up our police force. Since coming to government we have added over 3600 police officers on the streets of Victoria, men and women who each and every single day wake up to keep our community safe. They do a tremendous job. I have talked here in this place about visiting the big cop shops in Melbourne’s west, whether it is Wyndham police station, Sunshine police station or Werribee police station, talking firsthand to the men and women who are there on the front line and asking them what they think is happening with our youth in particular. The knowledge that they have provided us with is invaluable. That is always so important, and it is the reason why we consult so extensively with them before we put bills before this house that will give them the powers to keep our community even safer. On this side of the house we work with Victoria Police, not against them.

This is a tremendous bill. It is good timing for it to come before the house this week. I want to take a moment to give a big shout-out to the minister, who I know works extremely hard and extremely closely with Victoria Police. This bill is going to look at the deradicalisation of youth but also look at the search and seizure amendments that need to be made, particularly in relation to public places. We know that communities and families, particularly in my local patch in Melbourne’s west, cannot wait to get out and about and enjoy festivals and major sporting matches. They want to be safe. They deserve to feel safe. The amendments in this bill in particular are all around making sure that folks can feel safe at these major events. I cannot wait to get out into my community and talk about this really fantastic bill that has come before the house this week. I would urge those opposite to get behind it – get behind Victoria Police.

Business interrupted under sessional orders.