Wednesday, 19 March 2025

Bills

Gambling Legislation Amendment (Pre-commitment and Carded Play) Bill 2024

Second reading

Debate resumed on motion of Melissa Horne:

That this bill be now read a second time.

And Danny O’Brien’s amendment:

That all the words after ‘That’ be omitted and replaced with the words ‘this house refuses to read this bill a second time until the government:

(1) provides evidence that its reforms will reduce gambling harm;

(2) evaluates and reports on the feasibility of new technology such as facial recognition technology and automated risk monitoring systems;

(3) delivers a process to protect border clubs from financial drift to interstate clubs; and

(4) improves parliamentary oversight of the reforms.’

Anthony CIANFLONE (Pascoe Vale) (14:55): It is good to be up again on my feet so quickly. As I was saying yesterday, research by the Alliance for Gambling Reform and Roy Morgan, which surveyed 16,000 Australians, released in July 2024 showed that problem or moderate gamblers who make up just 12.7 per cent of those who gamble make up almost half of gambling revenue – that is, 48.5 per cent. Fifty-six per cent of problem gamblers suffer from mental health concerns, and that is 21 per cent more likely than the Australian average. Forty-one per cent suffer from anxiety; that is 20 per cent more likely than the average Australian. And 37 per cent of problem gamblers agree with the statement ‘I often feel my debt levels are out of control,’ which is 65 per cent more likely than the average Australian. Speaking from personal experience, I can very much attest to the firsthand impacts that gambling harm can have on the wellbeing of households, families and young people, having very much grown up in a household that experienced the significant brunt of gambling harm and what it means for young people and children and their upbringing, which is a story I will share at a later date.

In this respect I very much welcome the bill that is currently before the chamber, which is all about designing a set of reforms that are responding to gambling harm to support vulnerable households and people. On 16 July 2023 the former Premier announced Australia’s most significant package of gambling reforms, with the focus of the reforms making provision for how and when people gamble and making sure patrons have adequate protections when they sit down at an electronic gaming machine – an EGM – at their local club or hotel. That is why we have continued to lead the nation through the previous reforms we have committed to and progressed, which have included the establishment of the Victorian Gambling and Casino Control Commission – the VGCCC, Australia’s strongest gambling regulator with enhanced oversight and enforcement powers – and mandatory carded play for pokies at Crown, ensuring players track and manage their gambling. We have also committed to reducing load limits on EGMs from $1000 down to $100, which this bill before us will make provision for, and to strengthening existing money laundering standards and ensuring responsible gambling practices. Venue operators must then verify and identify before paying out credits of $2000 or more. And of course we have introduced the mandatory closure periods, where since 30 August 2024 all hotels and clubs must close gaming areas between 4 am and 10 am to reduce extended gambling sessions. Of course these are previous reforms, much of which we will continue to build on through the bill before the house.

This bill establishes those necessary legislative and regulatory frameworks to support the phased implementation of mandatory carded play and precommitment on EGMs in Victoria. Specifically the bill will ensure that all new gaming machines installed in a gaming venue after 1 December 2025 have a spin rate of at least 3 seconds. That is a 40 per cent increase on the current rate of 2.14 seconds. This will help slow the rate at which people are gambling on EGMS to help provide that additional breathing space for people to moderate and temper their behaviour. It will also require player cards to meet requirements set out in regulations and prohibit venue operators from issuing a player card without first verifying the player’s identity. It will enable the minister to direct the loyalty scheme provider or venue operator to provide loyalty scheme information to the minister or to the VGCCC. It will enable the minister to direct the monitor to ensure a person may not play on a gaming machine without a player account. It will prohibit a venue operator from allowing someone to play a gaming machine without using a player card where a direction to the monitor is in place. It will also expand the existing regulation, making powers so requirements may be prescribed for precommitment and carded play. The bill also amends the Casino Control Act 1991 to ensure that all gaming machines installed at the casino after 1 December 2025 have a spin rate of at least 3 seconds. And of course there are a quite a number of other reforms, regulations and provisions in this bill that help give effect to these very important new measures.

Full implementation is expected by August 2027 and will require a player to abide by their loss limit by that stage. Once the loss limit is reached, players will be prevented from using a gaming machine until their limit period resets. The bill is based on very extensive community consultation across various parts of the sectors that are impacted, and it is also supported by a number of stakeholders, including the Alliance for Gambling Reform, with the CEO of the alliance Martin Thomas emailing all of us yesterday and saying:

Evidence shows that mandatory carded play with pre-commitment is the gold standard for reducing gambling harm from poker machines. As a result of the Royal Commission this was implemented at Crown from December 2024 and this legislation supports the remaining venues in Victoria with EGM’s to have the same system for patrons.

The losses to poker machines in Victoria in 2023/24 were $3.03b, the highest on record.

The Alliance strongly supports and applauds Victoria’s decision to support mandatory carded play …

which is a sensible measure. And of course, with Australians spending more on gambling per capita than comparable countries, we must continue taking that action to reduce the impacts of gambling harm.

Across my community, we have 12 local venues with EGMs – pokies – a total of 639 local EGMs, and in 2023–24 over $61.4 million was lost through these machines collectively. That equates to $5 million per month or around $356 per person. These include the Abruzzo Club, with 55 machines, $1.8 million; Browns Corner Hotel, 35 machines, $5.3 million; Courthouse Hotel in Brunswick, $419,000; the Drums Hotel in Coburg with 75 machines, $9.4 million; Duke of Edinburgh, 50 machines, $7 million; Fawkner RSL, 33 machines, $1.1 million; First & Last Hotel, 64 machines, $10.7 million; Glenroy RSL, 40 machines, $6 million; Lyndhurst Club Hotel, $2.3 million; Moreland Hotel, 70 machines, $7.2 million; Northcote Park football club, 85 machines, $3.4 million; Pascoe Vale RSL, 47 machines, $2.3 million; Pascoe Vale Taverner Hotel, 42 machines, $5.5 million; the Reggio Calabria Club, $721,000; and the Brunswick Club with 43 machines, $1.1 million.

As I cited earlier in this debate, all of these clubs play an important role in employing local people, providing a great meal or a social night out for families, and make a great contribution by donating to many local sporting community clubs. However, we need to ensure through the measures contained in this bill that we continue to do all we can to mitigate against and support people at risk of gambling harm. In that respect, I just want to acknowledge the Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation. He came out to visit my electorate and a couple of these pubs and clubs back in February. We visited the Drums Hotel and met with local long-time publican Stuart Steele. The pub was established way back in 1875, just opposite Pentridge prison, and still continues to provide a great environment for local families to have a good meal out.

There is also across Merri-bek the Gambling in Moreland 2015–2020 strategy, which breaks down how local people do spend their gaming revenue or income. Fifty-three per cent of local households report gambling on TattsLotto or scratchies, 26 per cent gamble on horseracing, 23 per cent gamble via poker machines and 8 per cent on sports betting, which I am sure has increased since this report was first introduced. Of those who gamble on poker machines, individuals reported accessing poker machines across multiple locations, including 47 per cent at hotels, 42 per cent at RSLs, 25 per cent at the casino and 22 per cent at sporting clubs. Sports gambling was most likely to be accessed online – 53 per cent – followed by a local hotel. It is in that respect that I commend this bill to the chamber. It is all about helping build a better, safer, more resilient community.

Wayne FARNHAM (Narracan) (15:03): I am pleased to rise today to talk on the Gambling Legislation Amendment (Pre-commitment and Carded Play) Bill 2024. I always like following the member for Pascoe Vale, but normally he gives us a bit of a history lesson. I thought we would have got a history lesson on how Ned Kelly used to gamble in Coburg jail or something like that. He goes back a long way, the member for Pascoe Vale. He does give us a good history lesson normally when he talks. I am pleased to talk on this today. From the outset, I will say I am not a gambler. I am really not. I hate the pokies.

A member: Wanna bet?

Wayne FARNHAM: Well played. I hate the pokies, I really do. They are a pretty depressing place most of the time. You walk through there and you see people sitting there mesmerised by the machines, hitting the button, hitting the button, hitting the button. There is no conversation; there is no real social interaction. But although that is my personal point of view, I do not take away and I would never take away someone’s right to gamble.

The member for Pascoe Vale touched on it in his contribution, and it is also here in the reasoned amendment put forward by our shadow minister, the member for Gippsland South, and I thank him for the work he did on this bill. On the reasoned amendment, the first point – ‘provides evidence that its reforms will reduce gambling harm’ – is a very, very good point. I think everyone in this chamber probably knows a problem gambler. I do; I know quite a few.

I think a really important part about this is that the government provides evidence that its reforms will reduce gambling harm. It is really, really quite an important point, because unfortunately when we walk into these venues we do see a lot of people in our lower socio-economic demographic in these pubs and clubs playing pokies. They are probably, a lot of the time, the people that can least afford to gamble. I think what we really do need to do is around education and reducing harm of gambling. That to me is a prudent, responsible thing that any government should do. They really should. I mean, reducing the spin rates is a good thing, but I do not know if it is going to go far enough. I do not know if this bill and this proposal will actually solve the issue.

I am happy to be corrected if I am wrong, but I think it was the Penrith Rugby League club that introduced something like this. They had about 25,000 members. Of those 25,000 members, 250 members took it up, and of that only about 25 people actually signed up to the whole process. So it sort of seems it has already been done and it has not worked. Sometimes we should, as government and us collectively in this place, look to other jurisdictions and see what they have done, what has worked and what has not worked. I do not think this will work. I think what this actually may do is it may push more people, say, into the black market gambling space, the not-quite-legal space, the online area where there is no regulation behind it. People could probably end up losing a lot more money, because this could be too problematic for them.

But I can see an issue too when we are talking about border venues, when we are talking about border towns. What you might find is that people on the Victorian side may venture over to the New South Wales side because their laws are possibly more relaxed and there is no restriction there. I think these are things we need to consider when we are doing this bill. You know, it is meant to be rolled out across 40 pubs and clubs and in testing by mid-2025. I just do not know if we have got the balance right on this. I know I am being a little bit critical, but I can see problems with this. I suppose in many senses my description of this is like a Myki for pokie machines at the end of the day. You have got to upload onto a card and do it that way.

I just do not know if we are addressing the real issue here with gamblers and gambling, and that is to provide mental health support. We should be looking at other avenues to get people, especially people that are addicted to gambling, out of that cycle, out of that thrill. I can see what will happen here if things become too difficult in this space: we will find that the percentage of people on Sportsbet will probably rise. So there are all these other things around this that I do not think are that proactive, hence why the shadow minister put through the reasoned amendment.

The Victorian Liberals and Nationals are committed to reducing gambling harm. When we were previously in government we had the Victorian Responsible Gambling Foundation, and unfortunately the government abolished that foundation. I am not sure why they did that. Obviously I was not here in this chamber at that point in time. I do not know the motivation behind it, but obviously when were in government we had a system set up to help curb gambling harm. It is a massive problem in our community. I will not deny that. We see it quite often. I would not know the mindset of the government at the time or why they would actually abolish something like that. There could be a very, very good reason behind it.

Operators have raised some concerns, especially around how the data and the security may be used. We know people are very, very – what is the right word I am looking for – sceptical about their privacy nowadays and data being used and onsold. That is a fair concern. I do not think a lot of people realise the companies do sell data. Hopefully the government is going to address this concern.

Michaela Settle interjected.

Wayne FARNHAM: Probably right too. I am not disagreeing with you, member for Eureka. I am just saying that people have concerns around this space, they really do, so hopefully the government will put something in place with that.

To me it just does not go far enough. I am always concerned about gambling. I am concerned about the effects it has on households when you see people putting money into the machines but their kids are not clothed properly or not fed properly. I am not saying this is everyone that gambles, obviously, but there is a cohort that that happens to. I would like to see more support for gambling reform, more support for gambling addiction. These are the reforms that I will support every day of the week, because at the end of the day when people are struggling – and the member for Pascoe Vale did touch on it too, that quite a few gamblers have mental health concerns, and I do not think gambling helps those concerns. I think this is the area where we need to be investing, I really do.

This may work. It may not work. We do not know. I think there should be a review of this in a certain amount of time. I am just not convinced that this will work. I can just see people moving to other avenues of gambling. If they are gambling in a venue, I suppose that creates tax revenue. We know that. We also know that a lot of these venues give back to their communities. There is a regulation there that the venue – a pokies club or one of those types of venues – actually has to give a certain amount back in community grants. If we start to push people away from those venues to venues that are not regulated, that do not increase tax revenue, then those community grants might actually lower, those thresholds might lower. I just sat down with one of the clubs in my area last week and did those community grants, and I think it was to the tune of about $60,000 that they were giving back into the various community organisations, like they are regulated to do.

I am not going to go for much longer on this. I do not feel as though this will resolve the issues we have in Victoria. I am sitting here thinking it may work, it may not work. I do not know; I do not have a crystal ball. But I think we really need to put more into gambling education, gambling reform, as in education – just help gamblers out, is what I am saying. I am going to leave my contribution there.

Dylan WIGHT (Tarneit) (15:13): It gives me great pleasure this afternoon to rise and make a contribution in favour of the Gambling Legislation Amendment (Pre-commitment and Carded Play) Bill 2024. Before I get into my substantive contribution, we have heard several contributions from several members now, and I would just like to acknowledge all of them, particularly those that told their personal stories and particularly the member for Eureka. It is important to share lived experiences when it comes to issues such as these, when it comes to significant social issues such as these. I am most certainly not anti-gambling. I do not like pokie machines, but I am not anti-gambling. I think I used one of my first contributions in this place to explain what a market margin is and how to calculate it. But when it comes to issues such as these, sharing lived experiences is important to give everybody the context that they need, but it is also important just to illustrate that there is a personal cost to this, to problem gambling, that is not just paid by the person with the problem but paid by their families and their loved ones. I did not think it was appropriate to start this contribution without acknowledging that.

As I said, I am not anti-gambling, but pokie machines do gripe me. They seem to be disproportionately situated in areas with people who can least afford them, and they seem to disproportionately target poor and vulnerable people. In my electorate I have four large venues, a significant amount of machines and a significant amount of losses accrued. Tarneit–Hoppers Crossing is part of the mortgage belt in the west, and it is a community that has felt disproportionately the effects of rising prices and rising interest rates over the past couple of years. The west is not in isolation with that, but my community has felt those effects disproportionately compared to some other parts of the state. Yet in the 2023–24 financial year there was still $125 million of losses on these machines throughout the Wyndham LGA – $125 million in one year, $2.4 million per week. It is why, with respect, I do not support the reasoned amendment, because the reasoned amendment essentially tells us to stop debating this bill whilst this week $2.4 million are lost on these machines in the area of Wyndham. It will be $2.4 million next week and the week after, and the longer that we wait on this, the more pain that is caused through problem gambling in places like Hoppers Crossing and Tarneit.

The member for Narracan said that this piece of legislation does not fix the whole thing. Well, no, it does not. Apart from completely banning gambling – we still support people’s right to engage in the activity in a responsible way – there is no big stick, there is no quick fix to this issue. It is incremental changes that allow people in moments of clarity to have choice over the decisions they make and how they spend their money whilst gambling, and that is what this does.

Problem gambling goes far beyond the frustration of losing, and it goes far beyond finances, profit and loss. There is now empirical evidence, significant evidence, that problem gambling and that gambling losses cause a number of significant social issues in the family home and in the community. It is not a coincidence that on particular days when there are particular events when there is a lot of gambling turnover, as well as the high consumption of alcohol, that domestic violence goes up. That is not a coincidence. Problem gambling and gambling losses exacerbate a number of social issues, and that family violence piece is one of them. So if we can do anything in this space to help regulate and to help people have greater control over how much they spend and over how much they bet, that is an incredibly positive thing and one that we should be doing with haste. Once again, with respect, because I understand there are some stakeholders in those regional seats and those border communities in particular, I think that this is urgent enough for us to push through with it. I would hope that those in the other place agree with that notion.

This piece of legislation has got a couple of key features, one of which is account-based play which essentially requires patrons to insert a player card with information on their gambling habits and opt-in preset limits to operate a gaming machine. The member for Narracan spoke about the fact that it is an opt-in system. We are a liberal democracy, we are a free state, and I think all the evidence shows that just simply telling somebody ‘You can’t do this’ will make some people want to do it more. I think giving people the capacity in moments of clarity, perhaps in discussions with their family, to make smart decisions around their gambling choices and to set those limits is an incredibly positive step forward.

We have seen corporate bookmakers in this space do this for a long time. Every time you set up with a corporate bookmaker – and you know, to be honest, I have probably got about eight of them on my phone – and you make your initial deposit, they prompt you to set a bet limit. I do not think it is just with your initial deposit; I think just about every time I open the app they prompt me to set a bet limit. They cannot force you to, but that is what they do. Corporate bookmakers have been doing this in this space for some time, because there is evidence that it works. It does not work for everybody, and there are lots of different ways that we have to tackle this, but it makes a difference.

We unfortunately have not seen operators of these venues follow that lead on their own, so we are introducing and debating legislation that will make sure that they do and will make sure that they are acting in the best interests of their patrons but also the community that they are in first and foremost. What it also does is adjust the spin rate. It adjusts the spin rate I think to longer than 3 seconds, whereas it is currently at 2.14. Obviously a slower spin rate means less time slapping the button and less money spent.

These are not silver bullets. These will not fix gambling harm in isolation, but they are part of the settings that we have to create here in Victoria to encourage responsible gambling as much as we possibly can. As I said, to problem gambling there is a human cost that is paid. This is here to help fix it, and I commend it to the house.

Martin CAMERON (Morwell) (15:23): Acting Speaker O’Keeffe, I think this is the first time that I have stood up in the chamber when you have been in the chair, so it is a delight to be able to do that today. I rise to make a contribution on the Gambling Legislation Amendment (Pre-commitment and Carded Play) Bill 2024. I think that everybody that has stood up in the chamber to speak on this – and it has been great either sitting in here or watching and listening via the television in my office – is touched in some way by gambling, whether it is a personal account of family members that have been involved or it is friends or associates that have trouble when it comes to gambling. We need to do anything we can do in the space around gambling to support those people, who are normally the ones that can least afford to be losing money gambling, whether it be via poker machines in venues, at a casino or at a racetrack. We need to make sure that we are putting the best possible bill forward to help them out.

A lot of us can have a punt or walk into a poker machine venue and put a couple of dollars through if we feel like doing that, and that is the end of it, but there are some that gravitate towards a gambling lifestyle. As a former president of football club, in my playing days we did not know back then but we used to see signs of people that gambled in their mood swings and how they were back in the day when I was playing. When I first came in, mobile phones were limited. Not everybody had one, and to be able to –

Paul Edbrooke interjected.

Martin CAMERON: You would not believe it, member for Frankston, that is right, but it was limited, so you had to actually be at the TAB or at a pub to have a bet. But you could still tell the people that were gambling by the way they would be happy one minute and sad the next, and that is because they were betting on horses or gambling as such, and that was it.

These days, still being involved with the football club, every single person – whether it be football or netball – has a device, a mobile phone, in their pocket. It is amazing how times have changed. You walk into the clubroom and the kids that are 16 or 17 years of age are talking about football, and the part that they are talking about is putting an exotic bet on. They are going to load up and have five different people that are going to get a certain amount of possessions and the first person that is going to kick a goal and they are able to bet on it. That culture that is in our community of a gambling lifestyle is at the forefront no matter where you go, especially being able to carry something around in your pocket that enables everybody to be part of it.

The bill here to change some laws particularly around poker machines establishes a framework for the introduction of mandatory carded play and a precommitment for electronic gaming machines. We all go out for tea, whether it be at an RSL or a bowling club or a pub that does have poker machines in the venue, and we see people in there playing. We also see families out enjoying the other benefits of these establishments, so we need to still give people the right to be able to have a gamble if they want to responsibly, but we also need to make sure that we are doing everything possible with gambling laws to cater for the ones that really struggle in this space.

An interesting one here is Crown Casino. I did read here that when they went through this they experienced a significant downturn after the introduction of mandatory carded play there, and soon after that they cut around a thousand jobs. Crown Casino can probably to an extent absorb those losses, but when we go into regional Victoria and we are talking about our pubs and clubs and our publicans that responsibly running gambling venues we need to make sure that we are not pushing this on them if it is going to cost them staff members that they have to let go. So there is still some framework around it.

I notice the member for Gippsland South did, I think, have a sensible reasoned amendment that he put forward which I think strengthens this piece of legislation and provides a little bit more certainty for everybody, because there is a little bit of guesswork in this legislation. Talking with venue holders in the regional communities, they do do a lot for our community in general. That is not the only reason why we should be making gambling requirements to look after everybody in our community, but they do support our sporting clubs and they do support our Cubs and Scouts by providing funds and venues for them. I think it is said in here that maybe in the pilot program there could be around about a 30 per cent downturn.

I think the government do need to support trials as we go ahead, but if they come out to regional Victoria, where numbers are smaller, and they do not get the turnover they do here in inner-city Melbourne, we may need to provide support for our venues and licensees. The last thing we need in rolling out this trial is to cause more trouble in our communities and for our licensed venue holders, who, as I said before, do a great job. We have venues in the Latrobe Valley and throughout Gippsland that provide meals for underprivileged people. They have cheap nights when they can come in and eat either for nothing or for a very minimal amount of money. And they also do support a lot of our other workers that provide meals for nothing. So we need to make sure that we are not going to upset that from continuing by pushing the trial on. I think we do need the trial. We do need to see how this is going to work. But as I said, I think we do really need these amendments to go along and push through with it.

As I said before, I am involved in a community group, and my community group of choice is a football and netball club. Others will have other community groups that they do support full time. As MPs we actually are in a very privileged situation where we get to go around an incredible amount of services that actually rely on their on their patrons to help out. Especially in a football–netball club – and I do not want to pigeonhole them – you can actually pick people’s mood swings right across the board, whether they have been in a licenced venue, where we are trying to make amendments, or whether they are gambling online. I think the online area is the gravest concern. When people are going out, they are able to be not controlled but looked after in these licensed venues. But we do not want to push them so they are not leaving the house and they are spending all their time gambling unmonitored and unfiltered on their phone.

A gambling amendment is a good thing, I think, but we need to make sure that we do get it right. We need to make sure we get it right. Too often we are looking at legislation in this chamber that we do not get right. So I support fully the amendments from the member for Gippsland South, and hopefully the government will take these under consideration.

Sarah CONNOLLY (Laverton) (15:33): I too rise to speak on the Gambling Legislation Amendment (Pre-commitment and Carded Play) Bill 2024. This bill is really important. It builds upon our government’s work to go ahead and tackle and reduce gambling harm in our community. This is something I know my electorate of Laverton is very, very passionate about. I applaud the work done by local councils in my electorate – it does not happen very often that I will applaud the councils – in particular Wyndham and Brimbank city councils in advocating for these changes.

It is communities like mine that suffer the most from gambling, and I am going to give you some statistics here. In the City of Brimbank, which takes in Sunshine, Albion, Ardeer and Sunshine West in my electorate, gambling losses since July last year amounted to more than $103 million. These are the highest gambling losses in the state. If you come on over to Sunshine, Albion, Ardeer and Sunshine West, they are great places with great communities. But what you will notice is they do not strike you as particularly wealthy communities. They are communities that have suffered systemic economic disadvantage for many, many generations. They are great communities to live in and raise your kids, but you do have to stop and ask yourself why these communities have plugged $103 million into the gambling industry since July last year. On top of that $103 million, in Wyndham, which takes in Truganina and Williams Landing in my electorate, it amounted to $77 million and ranked seventh in gambling losses.

Now add up how much, in less than a year, has been accounted for in gambling losses in these suburbs alone in my electorate and think about what you could build for $180 million in losses. You could build a train station; you could build Truganina train station. In less than one year you could build a train station. You could go ahead and help fund schools. You could build sporting grounds with that kind of money, but this money has been plugged into certain facilities in my local community across these suburbs. The suburbs I have read out – one, two, three, four, five, six suburbs – have helped contribute to these kinds of losses. This is outstanding.

We talk about clubs having gambling, our sporting clubs having poker machines and needing them to survive and things like that. I think it is really important in this place to point out how much is actually going into the gambling industry and into these machines, particularly at these big gambling venues, which quite frankly are an absolute eyesore in my local community. I think it is appalling if they are backing in local sporting clubs. I do not want to see generations of the next round of children in these suburbs in clubs or major gaming facilities in my local electorate. I am not going to say who it is in particular, but every time I drive past – and they are very close to local sporting grounds – it always amazes me that they seem to have some kind of outdoor playground facilities that help draw people there and keep them there. These are not people going in for just a meal and a bit of a punt on a pokie; these are people who really go in with not much money. They may get a cheap meal, but they are there for a long time and they lose a hell of a lot of money. These two LGAs, Wyndham and Brimbank, are similar in nature: middle and outer suburban areas facing a lot of disadvantage which are recording tens of millions of dollars in gambling losses.

We have seen tremendous progress in this space, which is something that this government should be proud of, and we are proud of it. But I think members on this side of the house know we need to go even further. We have set up the Victorian Gambling and Casino Control Commission, the strongest gambling regulator in Australia, with enhanced oversight and enforcement powers. We have set up mandatory carded play for pokies at Crown Casino, ensuring that players can track and manage their gambling as the night goes on. Since August last year we have successfully had mandatory closing times, and I was particularly happy to see this. I would have liked it to have gone even further. Since August last year, we have successfully had those mandatory closing times, between 4 am and 10 am, preventing the practice of bussing gamblers from one venue to the next to get around closure periods.

These are all really important changes, and they are delivering benefits for folks living in my community in Melbourne’s west, and I know that because I go and talk to the services and the agencies that then have to deal with the problem gamblers and the addictions to things like gambling and having to deal with their families and the fallout that is going on in their lives.

There is always a lot more to do, and that is what this bill is about today. It should be clear from our government’s position that we want to ensure that gambling venues can continue to operate and thrive, and we want to make sure that community clubs, RSLs and hospitality venues can continue to remain an important part of Victorian social life. Whether you like it or not, there are some people that do like going to these clubs, and they have a right to go to these clubs. I understand that these venues are important for a lot of folks in our communities, and they are important for folks in my communities both as a source of local jobs but also for entertainment and for social engagement where folks can go to catch up with family and friends. My nanna, all those years ago – rest her soul, she has passed away now – loved going down to the local RSL and, whatever money she had left in her pension, I think she used to make 5-cent bets on the pokies. She really enjoyed doing it; it was something she did for a long time. She went deaf when she was 60 and faced isolation in her life after my grandfather died, and being picked up by the community bus and taken to the RSL, getting a cheap meal and being able to sit in front of a poker machine did get her out of her home.

Would we have said that that was the best way she could spend her time? I would say no; the family did not agree with that, but that kept Nanna happy and she enjoyed doing it. But what we know is that we want the gambling experience to be safe, and my nanna was not a problem gambler – she was someone, though, on a pension and who had no money. But what we want is that the gaming experience needs to be safe, and that is really tricky. It is really tricky with legislative reform; it is really tricky around talking to the services that are dealing with the fallout in people’s lives from problem gambling and trying to unpick their addiction to gambling. We need to ensure that patrons remain in control of their gaming and their spending.

Now, because of the effects of what happens when they lose control, we know they are incredibly devastating in our community. I just talked about my nanna loving to have a little punt; her brother who passed away many years before her – I do not remember him, Uncle Les – was a gambling addict; he was an alcoholic. He had had his marriage split up and was, I think, a physically abusive partner to both his wife and his children and then his partner, and gambling played a really big part in his life. That is just one example of how devastating it can be and what happens when people lose control and become gambling addicts and are also addicted to alcohol and other substances.

Uncontrolled gambling addiction is the kind of scourge that destroys relationships and families and ruins lives and livelihoods, and that is something that our government keeps in mind time and time again whilst also trying to balance the right of all Victorians to be able to go and have a punt, go to the RSL, go to the local club, get a meal. We do that; I do that and enjoy that time.

In the short time I have got left I would like to give a big shout-out to the previous minister. When you talk to the member for Williamstown about her views on gambling and gambling harm reduction in this state it is something she takes incredibly seriously and feels very passionately about, and that was about protecting folks mostly in electorates like hers in the electorate of Williamstown and electorates like mine, folks in the western suburbs, from having their gambling become out of control and ruining lives; she knew exactly what it did. I attended the services and organisations that provided assistance and support to gambling addicts and their families, so I do commend her on the power of work that she has done, and this bill is finally before the house and I commend it to the house.

Annabelle CLEELAND (Euroa) (15:43): I rise today to speak on the Gambling Legislation Amendment (Pre-commitment and Carded Play) Bill 2024, a bill which proposes significant changes to the way electronic gaming machines, known as EGMs, are regulated in Victoria. Specifically, the bill introduces mandatory carded play, precommitment systems and new minimum spin rates for EGMs among other amendments to the Gambling Regulation Act 2003. While the intent of these reforms is to address gambling harm, something that is incredibly necessary – no denying that – there are still some concerns, and many others have already raised them, about the bill’s effectiveness.

So I want to be clear about the purpose of the bill. The government’s plan is to introduce mandatory carded play and precommitment requirements for every player using EGMs. It means no person will be able to engage with gaming machines without first signing up for a card system, which will require them to provide personal ID. This might sound a straightforward way to address gambling harm, but it does raise some concerns. The government’s position outlined in the second-reading speech is that the reform is about standardising the process, as if it were simply an extension of the voluntary card system already in a place, but it is important to acknowledge that this is not standardising, it is making it compulsory. The bill does not leave room for choice; it mandates that all players must have a registered card to play, a policy which will inevitably infringe upon personal freedoms and could lead to unintended consequences. The government’s announcement of these reforms took several by surprise. Anti-gambling groups have long campaigned for reform, but the scale and suddenness of this change along with the potential impact on industry have raised concerns.

Venues, particularly pubs and clubs, which have only just begun their 20-year licences are now faced with significant regulatory challenges. This could create what is known as sovereign risk. You have heard about it – a risk of government action undermining contracts already in place. The introduction of mandatory carded play will be trialled in about 40 venues in mid-2025, but the government has not outlined how it will recruit venues or provide compensation for losses that these businesses are likely to incur. What happens if the pilot fails? Why should these venues bear the brunt of the government’s decision to introduce such a sweeping reform?

Looking beyond the pilot, the bill also proposes to introduce a minimum spin rate of 3 seconds for new EGMs, which is an increase from the current rate of 2.14 seconds. Some may see this as a sensible step to slow the pace of play, but it is worth noting that the technology being used is outdated. Magnetic stripe cards, which were developed in the 1960s, are still being proposed for this system, even as consumers are moving towards more modern contactless payment systems, and you cannot argue with that. The technology we are using is not keeping up with the times, and there is no clear plan for how this will be addressed. What is more, the bill does allow for regulations that will affect key aspects of these reforms, such as time limits, loss limits and the collection of data. Regulations are not subject to parliamentary scrutiny, which raises concerns about transparency and accountability. The government should not be allowed to make sweeping changes behind closed doors without input from the public or proper oversight by Parliament.

One of the most concerning aspects of the bill is the incredible lack of consultation, but we are not surprised by that. The government has failed to adequately consult with key stakeholders, including the industry and, importantly, communities that will be affected by the changes. Pubs, clubs and the people who rely on them for employment and community support will bear the financial consequences of these reforms. I might add that industry representatives have warned that they could see a drop in revenue of up to 30 per cent, with job losses and a reduction in funding for local sports and community groups. This is a real, tangible cost for communities across Victoria.

The evidence for the effectiveness of mandatory carded play in reducing gambling harm is not as clear-cut as the government would have us believe. While there is certainly data showing the impact of problem gambling, the statistics show that gambling participation has decreased significantly over the past decade. In 2008, 22 per cent of Victorians played poker machines. In 2023 that number was down to 11 per cent. The majority of people who experience gambling harm do not fit the stereotype of a compulsive gambler. In fact the report cited that the government indicates that most people who play poker machines do so without issue and that the highest rates of problem gambling are seen in other forms of gambling like bingo and keno. Experts like Professor Charles Livingstone of Monash University say that regular reminders of gambling limits could help prevent people from exceeding their intended play time. Many may choose to take their grant gambling online, which is also concerning, where monitoring is far more difficult and the harms less visible. There are concerns about the impact of these reforms on border venues as well, which you have heard, and the bill does not provide any certainty that Victorians will not simply cross the border into other states like New South Wales or Tassie, where the restrictions do not apply.

I believe we all share the goal of reducing gambling harm without question. The evidence suggests that the bill may not achieve the objective in the most effective way. There are alternative approaches such as facial recognition technology and automated risk-monitoring systems that could be more effective and less intrusive. For these reasons, the Liberal and National Party cannot support this bill in its current form.

In my little bit of remaining time I want to say thank you to the generous donations of the Kilmore Racing Club and the Seymour Club, who have been able to provide young people in my electorate with a scholarship to walk the Kokoda Track. They have invested more than $6500 to the Kokoda scholarship providing funding for year 11 students in the Euroa electorate to walk the Kokoda Track and follow in the footsteps of local war heroes from the 39th and 14th battalions. The scholarship was presented for the first time in 2024, providing Euroa Secondary College student Amber McNally and St Mary’s College Seymour student Chloe Butterworth with the opportunity to successfully complete the trek.

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The scholarship is something I am so privileged to be a part of. Trekking the Kokoda Track is a life-changing experience, and I am grateful that we are able to support incredible young people in our community with the necessary funding to participate. With the scholarship, we are hoping to encourage young people to research and understand the sacrifices made by so many ordinary people during wartime, including residents from our local communities. While on the trek, students will have the opportunity to learn and visit iconic sites from the war and pay respects at the graves of locals who gave their life during the war. The recipients of this year’s scholarship have been confirmed: Flynn Mosley of Australian Christian College Benalla and Felix Wallace Muskovic of St Mary’s College Seymour. Congratulations, boys. We are so proud of you.

John MULLAHY (Glen Waverley) (15:51): I rise to speak in favour of the Gambling Legislation Amendment (Pre-commitment and Carded Play) Bill 2024, and from the outset I would like to thank the Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation in the other place and his team for their efforts in bringing this important piece of legislation to this house. I trust that these changes will make a positive impact for Victorians. I would also like to take note of the excellent contribution from the member for Eureka. Each time that she gets up and speaks on these changes that we make with regard to gambling she lets us see into the harms that gambling has wreaked on her family, and I am very happy that she can share that with the rest of Victorians and us here in the chamber, giving us insight into these problems that we are actually trying to deal with with this bill here today.

This government is serious about reducing gambling harm, and we are proud to build on our legacy of taking strong and decisive action to protect Victorians. In July 2023 the then Premier, alongside the then Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation, introduced significant reforms to minimise the impacts of gambling on our community. The numbers presented in that media release unfortunately continue to paint a clear picture of the harm that gambling causes for so many. It was stated that an estimated 330,000 Victorians experience harm as a result of gambling each year, costing Victorians around $7 billion annually and leading to significant financial distress, mental health concerns and relationship issues. Just recently the figures are that $3.03 billion has been lost on electronic gaming machines themselves. That is why it continues to be an imperative that we step up to protect Victorians.

This Labor government introduced the Victorian Gambling and Casino Control Commission, an independent, strong and fair regulator of Victoria’s gambling industry. This commission operates to ensure that gambling operators act in good faith and take the necessary measures to minimise gambling harm. It also seeks to keep criminal influences away from the gambling industry as well as stopping those vulnerable to gambling harm from being unfairly targeted and exploited. By establishing the VGCCC, we have made a bold statement that the gambling industry will be regulated strongly, with enhanced oversight and management, and that those who engage in wrongful behaviour will be held accountable. We have also identified that the introduction of carded play at Crown Casino on electronic gaming machines, also known as poker machines, is a prudent measure to help protect players. Carded play means that users can keep track of just how much they are gambling with and, quite frankly, how much money they are losing.

Twenty-two years ago I had the experience of working in Crown. As a uni student I worked in the hospitality industry serving drinks to the punters in that venue. We had good working conditions, but I did see in front of my eyes the harm and the dangers associated with electronic gaming machines and gambling in general. Back then it was more like the wild west. You did not have to be carded, and you were not being tracked in what sort of gambling you were doing. I am very happy that Crown has already introduced carded play, and I did pop down there to have a look to see, and it seems a simple and an easy process. On the concerns that have been raised by the other side about it being problematic, it was very easy for them to show me what they do to sign up. These changes stand alongside the mandatory closure period of 4 am to 10 am for gaming areas in all Victorian hotels and clubs, which came into effect on 30 August last year. This again is another measure to help stop users from losing control and to keep track of time. There were reports of many of the venues staggering their opening hours so that a punter could move from one venue to the other. This ensures that all venues are closed from 4 am to 10 am.

This bill progresses the Allan Labor government’s remaining commitments to addressing the risks and harms related to gambling. As technology advances, this opens up a potential to use this as an opportunity to further protect gamblers while simultaneously presenting a risk that gambling may become even more perverse and harmful. Account-based play regulations mean that in order to operate a gambling machine a patron must insert a player card into the machine. This personal card gives players information about their gambling habits and history as well as giving them an opportunity to set limits on how much they are willing to lose. This process is also known as precommitment, an important measure which can balance personal choice and freedom with responsibility such that people can still have fun whilst maintaining the safeguard mechanism necessary such that the enjoyment does not turn into an addiction or intrusive habit. Furthermore, this bill will pave the way in reducing the spin rate of electronic gaming machines. A spin rate of 2.14 seconds, which is the current setting, means that for one round of a pokies game it takes the machine 2.14 seconds to complete the spin. By increasing the time of this spin rate to above 3 seconds we are slowing the play speed of games, thus slowing the rate gamblers can lose money on these machines. Researchers indicated that faster play is correlated with higher stakes, longer periods of play and, on occasion, impaired self-control abilities when playing. It is critical that we take action to slow down the rate of play, and that is exactly what this bill intends to do.

We recognise that these reforms are broad ranging and complicated. As such, the implementation of these changes cannot be done in an instant, and we must take the necessary steps to ensure that they are effective and efficient. The new act will enable the new Minister for Casino, Gaming and Liquor Regulation to conduct pilots to learn from how it can be practically implemented. For example, across a three-month period around 40 venues across the state will be trialled for carded play. This process is crucial as we can access the harm minimisation effectiveness of these policies through the pilot stage. This in-depth analysis will provide the flexibility to strengthen or make any changes that may be necessary. Victoria was the first state in Australia to introduce carded play and precommitment for electronic gaming machines. Another benefit of this is that it provides a further deterrent against money laundering by mandating the venue operators verify identity before cashing out wins of $2000 or more. The evidence is overwhelming to support our changes. Although the proportion of the population which uses pokies is decreasing, the number of gamblers who face harm has increased. The Productivity Commission reported that almost 70 per cent of EGM users spend more than their limit, a shocking and worrying statistic which further elucidates the importance for change.

We also know that the legislative reform alone is not enough. Whilst we expect that most will follow the new rules and regulations, there are some bad-faith actors who try to circumvent the rule of law. That is why this bill created new offences to support the new reforms. Once it has been established, an offence will be created to penalise venue operators who allow uncarded play or issue cards to someone whose identity has not been properly verified. Additionally, the minister will have the power to instruct a loyalty scheme provider or venue operator to supply information about the gambling habits of players and the implementation of the precommitment. Much like the aforementioned VGCCC, this is about providing oversight over whether users are being treated fairly and vulnerable users are not being preyed upon.

In drafting this bill the government established a community advisory committee, talked to people with lived experience of gambling harm and listened to working groups and advocates, so this bill also considers the role of community clubs, RSLs and hospitality venues in the state of our economy. They make a contribution to the grassroots sport and organisations and donate to charities as well as look after our veterans. I would like to give a shout-out to the team at the Waverley RSL: president Neil Slaughter; vice-president Geoff Dare OAM; secretary Grantley Woods; treasurer Ken Vickery; committee members Tim Day, Rhonda Reid, Rex Hirst, Brendan Mahon and Gary Brogden; welfare officer Filidea Di Bianco; and general manager Justin Cleverley. I would also like to thank the great team for the work that they do in the provision of welfare services to support the former and serving members of the Australian Defence Force.

Business interrupted under sessional orders.