Thursday, 17 October 2024

Building Legislation Amendment and Other Matters Bill 2024

Second reading

Debate resumed on motion of Sonya Kilkenny:

That this bill be now read a second time.

James NEWBURY (Brighton) (12:16): I rise to speak on the Building Legislation Amendment and Other Matters Bill 2024. I think it needs to be put on the record at the very outset that the Parliament will only be allowed an opportunity to debate this bill for just over 2 hours. Despite a whole parliamentary week, the government has narrowed the debate on this bill to just over 2 hours. The reason they have done that is because this is in effect an omnibus bill and most of the measures in this bill would be supported entirely by every member, I am sure, in this place. I will mention some of them in passing as I speak. Most of the measures in this bill are part of a routine omnibus bill change to current legislation in relation to building and planning in this state. These bills are not uncommon, and most of those measures would be entirely supported by this chamber.

But what the government has done in this omnibus bill is slip in a sneaky head of power to ban gas in Victorian homes. We have an omnibus bill which is for the most part fair and reasonable and includes measures that should and would be supported, but they have tapped into that to hide a very, very concerning measure to ban gas in people’s homes. They have done it separately to the normal process of doing so. Normally you would think they would bring a bill into this place to explain why they are banning gas for Victorians, but instead they have slipped it sneakily into a bill about a lot of other things that are innocuous, probably hoping that Victorians would not even notice, that no-one would notice what is in this bill. They hoped that no Victorian will pick up the bill and flick through it and delve deeply, right down deeply, into the bill to find the head of power which allows a total ban of gas in Victorian homes.

Every Victorian should be scared by this power. I think it is very, very concerning. You should have the right to gas in your home. Of course you should. We saw in the recent blackout, when half a million homes lost power, that the only access to energy they had was gas. They still had access to gas. Victorians should have access to a secure energy supply, yet what this bill has is a very concerning power, that is being snuck into what would be a non-contentious bill, to ban gas.

That is why I move, on behalf of the coalition, an amendment:

That all the words after ‘That’ be omitted and replaced with the words ‘this bill be withdrawn and redrafted following stakeholder consultation on the impact of the gas ban, while ensuring the other changes in the bill are retained.’

This makes clear that the coalition does not have an issue with most of the measures in this bill; they are entirely not controversial. But we will not support a bill that sneakily bans gas on the way through. I mean, seriously, can you believe that the government have so little courage on their policy decisions that they are now trying to sneak their decisions through this Parliament, hoping that no members of this place will notice the gas ban in this otherwise innocuous bill – that no-one will actually notice? They have slipped it deep in the bill. I am sure there are members on that side of the chamber who did not even know there was a gas ban in the bill. I am sure they are now shocked to hear about it, because I feel certain that in their caucus they would not have been briefed on the gas ban. They would have kept that secret from their colleagues. I cannot imagine the Minister for Energy and Resources –

Members interjecting.

James NEWBURY: I pick up the member for Mordialloc’s interjection. He said that in caucus he was talking about me instead of talking about the gas ban. Can you believe it? How embarrassing to talk about me over the government’s gas ban. That shows you the priorities of this government. They have just been revealed, haven’t they? They have just been revealed: talking about rank politics over a gas ban. That is why, instead of talking about the important policy issues of the state, they are talking about rank politics.

But Victorians can see it, and you can see it in the community sentiment in relation to gas. I refer to the firm that I never refer to by name, but I will in this instance, considering who is in the chamber: RedBridge communications, RedBridge communications. I might mention them a third time. RedBridge recently found there had been a decline in support, a collapse in support – like support for the government, by the way – for the government’s ban on gas. There is now net support for a gas ban at -29. The only number close to that is 30, which is the Premier’s popularity rating. What is worse, as reported, critically the support amongst Labor voters has collapsed. Is there any wonder why as soon as that poll was announced the Premier stood up to say, straight after the policy was announced, ‘Victorians can keep cooking with gas.’ Is there any wonder why a Premier who stands for nothing except green-lighting illicit drugs and trying to con Victorians into believing that she somehow is now a convert to gas –

Juliana Addison: On a point of order, Acting Speaker, I do not know what the previous bill has to do with this, so: relevance.

James NEWBURY: On the point of order, Acting Speaker, I was referring specifically to the Premier’s comments on this bill.

The ACTING SPEAKER (Wayne Farnham): I will make a ruling on the point of order. The member did stray a little bit. I will ask the member to come back to the bill and continue with the debate.

Members interjecting.

James NEWBURY: I do not feel the protection of the Chair right now, Acting Speaker. What this bill does is ban gas; that is what this bill does. Further to that, the other measures in this bill, as I mentioned, are entirely supported by the coalition. For example, the matters around building orders being able to be made in an extended way, if I can put it that way rather than being technical –

Members interjecting.

James NEWBURY: To help the member for Mordialloc, to extend the way that building orders are made is important, because we know the system is not currently working. We know it is not working, because we have seen horrible, horrible instances of home owners who have been caught out putting their hard-earned money into properties or building properties, and they have, frankly, been ripped off and left in some cases with hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs to try and repair works that were in no way their fault, because insurance did not cover them. Of course we support that measure.

VCAT limitation periods are being extended. Of course we support that measure, because it is important that we not put a cap on a timeline where it is appropriate that those who suffer have a justifiable case and the only thing that stops them from mounting that case is an arbitrary timeline. Of course we support that measure. The architects registration regime is a simple change in relation to timing of registration, and the peak body in the area has no issue with the regime change. Of course we support that measure.

There are also changes in relation to neighbours having access to the contact details of their neighbour, where building works are occurring, so that there can be communication. The coalition throughout the process of this bill being considered has spoken with the government and the department in a constructive way and spoken about the importance of communication being free between those two parties but at the same time ensuring there are protections, because there should be protections. You need to ensure that those contact details cannot be misused, or the requests for them cannot be under the guise of something else and misused and it gives people the right to contact details where they should not have or would misuse them. The coalition has received assurances from the government that when those processes are put in place there will be adequate protections – for example, perhaps a statutory declaration – so that there is an assurance that people are protected from misuse. Or people will have to show a building permit, for example, or a building plan – something that justifies the request, again a measure that the coalition supports.

But in addition to those measures there is this gas ban in the bill, and the gas ban is an extraordinary measure at clause 38. What it does, this clause 38, is put into legislation a head of power that allows regulations to be made. What that means is this law will allow the government to make expanded laws that allow for the prohibition of gas in existing buildings or buildings under construction, buildings in a class of existing building or a class of building under construction, so defined. It also adds a prohibition on the tradesperson from conducting that work, so it effectively creates a head of power that will allow two new prohibitions both to the home owner and to the tradesperson. But what is so scary about these new heads of power is that there are no details. What this bill says is, ‘We will deal with this by way of regulation.’

When the government introduced this bill they said that this power was in aid of their gas road map. However, the power in this bill in no way aligns with that road map. The road map sets out timelines and timeframes around, in the government’s mind – they are wrong – the future of gas. What this does is give total unfettered power to prohibit gas. When the minister says this new power is in line with their road map, it is not true. The legislation does not do that. There is no cap. There is no limit to what this power could potentially do. What this law says is, ‘We will deal with this by regulation,’ which effectively means off book, outside Parliament. We know what the government’s plan is because they said it in the second-reading speech. The minister said the plan is to transition away from relying on fossil gas to power our homes and businesses, full stop. We know what the minister’s plan is: to transition away, not on certain homes, on all homes. Read the sentences in the second-reading speech that the minister tabled. We know what the minister’s plan is, which is why the power in this bill has no limits.

When I asked simple questions throughout the consultation process with the government on this bill around what the caps and what the limits around this power will be, the government refused to provide any limit. In fact they would not even guarantee that the power use would be limited to the substitution road map. Despite saying in the speech that this power has something to do with the substitution road map, we know that it does not. In addition, this bill will allow two new prohibitions to be created, two new bans in law from behaviour, but the other thing the government will not reveal is what the penalties will be. The coalition sought to understand what the penalties would be. How much trouble would someone get in for trying to connect gas at their home? The government will not tell anyone. They will not tell Victorians. Not only is there a ban, but they will not tell you yet how much you are going to be punished for doing it. They will not tell tradespeople how much they will be punished for trying to connect. They will simply introduce with this bill a blanket ban and then say, ‘We’ll deal with this off book, outside Parliament.’

No-one trusts this government when it comes to the gas ban, and you can see it in the recent Redbridge poll. I am not a huge fan of polls, let alone Redbridge, but in this instance I point to that because Victorians now know what the government’s plans are. It is very, very concerning because at the end of the day we are dealing with Victorians having secure, reliable and affordable energy, and gas must be part of that mix. As has been pointed out by industry, the truth is, as the Australian Industry Group’s chief executive recently said, that this government has spent the last decade ‘demonising gas as a legitimate energy source’. That is true, and we know it is true. I quote further:

It may be that having been warned by energy regulators that it faces a strong risk of blackouts in the years ahead as well as seeing significant parts of its industrial base at risk, the Victorian government has realised that misguided ideological intransigence has real-world consequences.

We know that to be true. It is deeply concerning that the government has been waging a war on gas, and this bill just takes that war one step further in banning people from gas in their homes.

We have seen when it comes to this bill, as I mentioned earlier, soon after polling was released in relation to community support for gas, the Premier’s new-found interest in gas and her public comments: ‘Oh, no, no. No, no, no, no, we don’t have a problem with gas. No, no, no, you’re still allowed to cook with gas.’ We saw those comments very soon after that polling. But only when it comes to cooktops did the Premier give that commitment. When it comes to hot water, no. When it comes to anything else a household does or uses gas for, no – the Premier just said when it comes to cooktops. The Premier was called out only two days after saying that Victorians can continue to cook with gas, when she approved this bill being introduced into the Parliament.

Two days after the Premier stood up and said, ‘I like gas now. Actually, everyone stop worrying about my gas bans. I think it’s okay,’ she introduced a sneaky bill into this place to ban gas in people’s homes. I mean, talk about talking out of both sides of your mouth: ‘I support gas. I’m going to ban it, but I’m going to sneak it through.’ That is what the Premier is trying to do today – to sneak through a ban, and not only sneak it through but stop the Parliament debating it. There will only be 2 hours of debate on this bill. We saw earlier the government packing their speakers list to stop any debate on this bill. This debate started after 12 o’clock. The whole morning was filled with the government packing their speakers on the previous bill because they did not want to allow any opportunity for debate on this bill.

When the bill was introduced you could see what industry thought of it. I refer to Seeley International managing director Jon Seeley, who said in relation to the Premier’s announcement:

Today’s announcement is a cynical political exercise, an attempt to defuse widespread community discontent with their illogical anti-gas policies without making any substantive concessions … Half the energy used by Victorian homes is gas for cooking, heating and hot water, which creates less emissions than switching to coal-fired electricity. Of the common household uses of gas, cooking would be the smallest, and also the most emotive for many community groups.

Telling taxpayers (to) keep cooking with gas but ignoring the fundamental flaw in … pushing households to electrify everything else makes no sense except from a political perspective.

He has hit the nail on the head, hasn’t he – ‘from a political perspective’. That is why the Premier came out and made the comment in relation to gas and was caught only two days later.

What is worse is the government did not even talk to industry. You look at comments from Ross Jamieson from the Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association of Australia, who said that any thoughts of consultation were completely baseless and ‘We’ve had no meaningful discussions with the government this year at all.’ You can just imagine, can’t you, the gas appliance manufacturers trying to knock on the door of the Minister for Energy and Resources. Can you imagine –

Danny O’Brien interjected.

James NEWBURY: It would be a cold day, wouldn’t it? It would be cold day. You would be sitting outside that office for a very long time. I am sure that you would not get entry into that office.

For the association to say that the government has not spoken to them this year is astonishing. Is there any wonder that you have had the federal government, the federal minister and the Deputy Premier in this place call out the minister for energy’s behaviour? Is there any wonder that the Deputy Premier has made it very, very clear that he is cooking with gas at home? He said something about gas, and I think he did it because he knows the government has gone down the wrong path. But what will be interesting later is to see how he votes. That is all very well and good, and I give him some credit for calling out the minister for energy. But he will have an opportunity to vote later today, so it will not just be his words – it will be the character of his conviction on display. I would say that I would hope that he would not only speak to his views but that he actually votes against the ban. If he is allowed to cook with gas, why would he allow the government to ban others from doing the same? Words matter, and he has the opportunity to do that later today.

The other thing that is worth speaking to in relation to this bill is the minister’s second-reading speech. The second-reading speech went to Victoria’s housing statement, some of which the government has forgotten about, including the commitment to build 80,000 homes each and every year over the next 10 years. We know that in the last year they built 51,000 and this year that is projected to fall to 45,000. Only Labor could announce that they will increase the number of homes being built and that number go backwards as a result of their statement. Only Labor could manage that one. It is frankly because they do not understand what they are doing and the housing statement was basically a raft of new taxes. ‘Industry, why don’t you build new homes?’ And what we will do as a result is we will tax you into doing it. What that was about was the former premier wanting to announce something on the way out. We know from little birdies in the department that the former premier was given a draft housing statement that suggested the government commit to 60,000 homes every year, but the Premier, because he was on his way out, said, ‘I want to commit to 80,000.’

Paul Mercurio: On a point of order, Acting Speaker, I believe the member has strayed from the content of the bill.

James NEWBURY: On the point of order, Acting Speaker, the member may wish to read the second-reading speech of the minister. The minister quite clearly, in detail, speaks to Victoria’s housing statement at page 4 of the second-reading speech.

The ACTING SPEAKER (Wayne Farnham): The member was being relevant.

James NEWBURY: Victoria’s housing statement, some of which has been forgotten, will become a key focus for Victorians over coming months. You are starting to see across this state big groups of the community forming to come together in forums – big, big groups – saying they are concerned about the measures in these bills. We spoke about it in question time yesterday. In the Deputy Premier’s seat hundreds of residents will be coming together on Sunday. They have invited me as the shadow minister and the Leader of the Opposition to come to the Deputy Premier’s seat to talk about their concerns about a major activity centre plan with a minimum four-storey requirement. For effectively a 1-kilometre circumference you will have to build a minimum four storeys.

We know that in the other activity centres there will be a standing right for six storeys in suburban streets – six storeys.

Members interjecting.

James NEWBURY: I hear the members from the other side talking about the fact that their areas do not have any of these announced plans. I am so glad that the members think it is something to boast about that Labor has chosen not to pick their seats for development. And we know when it comes to the minister, the minister has form, because the minister who is approving these things is on the record for opposing development in her seat. The minister is opposed to development in her own seat – and in one instance opposed a 10-storey development and a three-storey development – but is happy to approve 20 storeys in everyone else’s. That just tells you the type of character.

When it comes to this bill, the coalition support most of the measures, but we will not support this gas ban, and neither will Victorians. The Premier has been caught, the Premier has been seen and so has the Labor Party, and Victorians will not accept it.

Sarah CONNOLLY (Laverton) (12:46): I just have to pause. I do not need to reflect. I have got a shocking headache, and I feel like I need a cup of tea. It is coming close to a break for lunch. What I will say is that what I took away from the member for Brighton’s contribution, a theatrical performance which always puts such a great smile on my face – what would we do without you, member for Brighton? You are so far from Labor’s worst nightmare it is not funny. But in good jest, what I took away from that is that the member for Brighton is the household cook in his family, and he is freaking out about not having gas on his stovetop. There are other options, member for Brighton. Just because there have been a few invitations from those opposite this week, I would love to have the member for Brighton over to my house and have a little bit of a cook-off. We could cook with many different appliances. I am someone who dabbles in a little bit of gas cooktop; I have got a gas cooktop, which is soon going to change, in the coming months, by the way.

Members interjecting.

Sarah CONNOLLY: It could lock in my preselection doing that, if members get to meet the member for Brighton. What I will say is, as the member for Tarneit kindly pointed out yesterday: cook with a bloody air fryer. Come to my place, member for Brighton, whether it is in coming weeks when I will have a gas cooktop or in coming months when I will have induction. We can cook many things. We can cook your favourite meal.

There is a really funny story about me cooking with gas. You may not know, member for Brighton, that I grew up and spent many decades in New South Wales. I have even been known to live in the ACT. Let me tell you, when I arrived in Victoria and in our first rental in Melbourne’s west, we had a gas cooktop. I did not know how to use it. I did not know how to switch it on. I used to burn things all the time. It is a common New South Wales problem and a common thing in Queensland, where I have spent a lot of time. In Queensland we did not have heating, if we needed heating, by gas; we used air conditioners and reverse-cycle air conditioning, which was cheaper, and it kept you really cool in summer, which you needed up north.

My point in telling you about when I arrived here in this state and did not know how to use the cooktop is that I learned. The sky did not fall in. I learned how to cook with gas. I use many different appliances. My favourite appliance that I have had for 11 wonderful years is my Thermomix – my Thermie. I love my Thermie – and she ain’t working on gas, people. That is why I understood her perfectly when I brought her along with me in my move to Victoria. We have cooked together many times, many things, because I could not work out how to use gas here in this state. But like I said, I learned. You learn something new every day, and when you have to cook every day, you learn quickly. You make mistakes, but you learn how to use it.

That is what will happen with induction. It is not the end of the world for people that are moving into new builds that cannot cook with gas. They will cook with induction. In fact they are building here in this state now knowing they are going to cook with induction. And many of those people who are building their new homes do not live a couple of hundred metres from Brighton Village; they live out in my patch in the outer western suburbs, on the outer fringes of Melbourne. That is where they are moving. They are not moving into inner Melbourne. I do not think that they are having this huge debate or this massive meltdown about their cooktop.

Belinda Wilson interjected.

Sarah CONNOLLY: They are so excited – that is right – to move into their new home. How will they cook? They will deal with it. They might have cooked with gas their whole life, like many Victorians. And there are many people who have not spent their entire life here in Victoria moving to the outer burbs, do I have to say, and they too deserve a voice. They will cook with what they have got in their house, and it will probably be with induction. If there are people listening to this, I would also suggest you get yourself a Thermomix, because they are really good to cook with as well.

Belinda Wilson interjected.

Sarah CONNOLLY: Air fryer, as the member says. I do like a bit of air frying. But the hysteria that the member for Brighton has made in his contribution about gas and banning gas fails to recognise some pretty significant fundamentals when it comes to gas here in this state. In the past what Victorians all knew around the state is that Victoria had heaps of it, and they used a lot of it. But what we know now is that it is depleting and it is depleting fast, and it is one of the biggest contributing factors as to why people’s utility bills are skyrocketing through the roof. Those people, particularly out my way, know this down to a tee. I have gone and visited, and we have talked about gas and induction and all these kinds of things. They tell me they are saving so much money on their electricity and gas bills by being all electric, having participated in our Solar Homes program, having solar panels on their rooftop, having a battery in their garage that they are connecting their electric vehicle to and changing up their hot-water system. They are saving not hundreds but thousands.

When I had the Premier out a couple of months ago to a home in Williams Landing we had a great chat about their Tesla electric vehicle. I have never been inside one, let alone driven one, but I was watching it charge up connected to the battery in their garage. They talked to the Premier and also the minister about the amount of money they were saving, and it was quite detailed. They listed this all out, and I am really hoping they did not just do it for the Premier’s visit. But they checked their bills every time they came through, and they were saving thousands. The first thing that the Premier said to them is, ‘What are you going to do with the money? Are you going to go on a holiday?’ They had saved so much money they were considering going on a major family holiday.

This is the stuff that matters, and on this side of the house, when we go out and talk to folks in our community about cost of living, about the environment and about tackling climate change and taking real action, these are the sorts of conversations we are having with people. It is not this emotional, hysterical meltdown about ‘I can no longer cook with gas. Oh, my God, how will I cook with induction?’ People will learn. They will learn, and they will adapt to the change. They will enjoy more money in their hip pocket at the end of every single week; we can guarantee them that. They will also be making a significant contribution to tackling climate change here in this state. These are the sorts of things that this bill – and it may to some seem like a small bill or a bill that gets them really riled up ‍– is doing, and this is why it is before the house this week. It is something really important. It is another bill that is going towards having better building legislative regulation. It is also another bill that is coming through the house to then help us tackle things like climate change and getting to zero emissions by the dates that we have now set. This is the stuff that really matters.

The member for Brighton’s contribution – I really wish his community could hear him. I really wish that the young people at school in his community could hear him. The next generation, dare I say, of people standing there cooking meals for themselves and their family as they continue to grow – are they going to be having a meltdown and thinking about all of the things they have been ripped off by in life, gas being one of them? No, they are not. Those kinds of sentiments, those kinds of arguments are absolutely ridiculous. Many on this side would say it is scaremongering, it is false information, it is completely misleading. To me, it is completely out of touch with what the broad greater Victorian community is thinking and feeling – and indeed Australia – which is exactly why time and time again when they bring these sentiments to elections they continue to lose.

This bill has so many other things that form part of it, and I really congratulate the minister on bringing this bill to the house this week. Again, it is great legislative reform, reform that our government is now renowned for having done, and that is because we are continually introducing legislation into this place that is all about making Victoria a fairer, more equitable, more inclusive state. I am really excited to think that in decades to come we might be leading the nation, having taken to induction like ducks to water. I have no doubt that we will be. Victorians are smarter than that. I commend the bill to the house.

Danny O’BRIEN (Gippsland South) (12:56): I am pleased to rise to say a few words on the Building Legislation Amendment and Other Matters Bill 2024 before we break for lunch. I must express my disappointment at the member for Laverton inviting her good friend the member for Brighton over to cook with her. She has forgotten all her Public Accounts and Estimates Committee mates already, obviously. Perhaps it is a reflection of the fact that we already spend enough time with each other in PAEC and she is sick of me. But anyway, I would be cooking with gas too, member for Laverton, if I was inviting anyone over, and I am very proud to do so.

I will come to the gas issues in a moment, but there are other elements of the bill that are not related to that – in fact quite substantive elements of this bill. It provides provisions relating to building surveyors serving building notices. It provides clarification on bringing building and plumbing actions under the Building Act 1993, it establishes a new scheme under the Architects Act 1991 with respect to registered architects annually renewing their registration and it makes a number of further miscellaneous and technical amendments to the Building Act 1993, the Architects Act 1991 and the Victorian Planning Authority Act 2017.

But I really want to talk about the gas issues, which are a small part of the bill but an absolutely central part of the policy being put forward by the government here. It is for the reason that we have concern about these gas elements that the member for Brighton has moved a reasoned amendment, and it is one that I support. Effectively, that reasoned amendment says we have no issue with the other parts of the bill that I have mentioned, but we have a strong objection to the government’s legislation to actually try and ban people from connecting to gas under regulations. That is what this bill will do if passed.

We are not sure sometimes whether the government knows what it is talking about. They have been very successful in getting the Herald Sun to run a front-page story that we can keep cooking with gas, but it soon emerged that in fact that was not really the case; the backflip was only a half-pike, and not even that. So the government remains conflicted on this. Anyone who has paid any attention knows that the Minister for Energy and Resources has had to change her language in the last 12 months or so. Gas was a great evil not that long ago, but suddenly we are acknowledging that it will be part of the transition in the energy system. It is quite strange that we have got this bill this week giving the government a head of power to ban gas connections in residential homes and businesses and yet yesterday we debated a bill that will increase storage opportunities for gas. That must have hurt when the minister had to introduce that one. It is a sensible piece of legislation and we are supporting it; this one not so much, and I will be supporting the reasoned amendment.

Sitting suspended 1:00 pm until 2:02 pm.

Business interrupted under standing orders.

The SPEAKER: I acknowledge in the gallery Dr Byreddy Shabari, member of Parliament from India, for Nandyal constituency in the state of Andhra Pradesh. Welcome.