Tuesday, 31 October 2023

 David LIMBRICK (South-Eastern Metropolitan) (12:29): (325) My question is for the Attorney-General. During the last sitting week the Parliament passed the Nazi salute prohibition bill, with it heading straight to the Governor for royal assent so it could be made law and come into effect with urgency. I opposed the bill at the time. I thought it was likely to be counterproductive and predicted that it would be quickly tested, either with the laws shown to be ineffective or with the pathetic Nazis of Melbourne creating their first martyr. I was not alone with these concerns, with civil rights group Liberty Victoria echoing them. Even I did not expect the rapid turnaround, with a convicted neo-Nazi performing the salute right as they walked out of court, and police are now investigating. My question for the Attorney-General is this: do you remain confident that these laws will be effective?

The PRESIDENT: Mr Limbrick, would you like to rephrase that so it is not asking for an opinion?

David LIMBRICK: Thank you, President. Does the Attorney-General have any evidence that these laws are effective?

 Jaclyn SYMES (Northern Victoria – Attorney-General, Minister for Emergency Services) (12:30): Thank you, Mr Limbrick, for your question. I am a bit stuck here because I do not want to reflect on an individual matter that has been reported on. I certainly have not been briefed in any formal way in relation to that matter. But I think we had an extensive conversation around the purpose of these laws. They are to respond to the harm caused by such offensive behaviour, and that is what they are focused on. Will we have examples of people flouting the law, people behaving inappropriately? Sure. That is human behaviour. I have never said that the laws are going to stop people being neo-Nazis. I wish they could. They do not, but what they do do is send a message to the community that such symbols, such gestures, are inappropriate in our community when they are directed in public to those that find them very offensive, very harmful. When that conduct occurs, these laws will be very useful to respond to that behaviour.

 David LIMBRICK (South-Eastern Metropolitan) (12:31): I thank the Attorney-General for her answer. I also share the concerns about these groups, and I am concerned that these laws will actually make things worse, because it seems that there is very little wriggle room in the law. In my view there is a significant risk that any trial would simply become a show trial and give these people an opportunity to further promote their ideology. Worse is the prospect of a High Court challenge, arguing that their actions are a protected form of political communication. It is perhaps an oversight that no questions were asked about this in the committee stage of debate and there was not any comment on it in the SARC report. What is the Attorney-General doing to prevent any potential trial or challenge being used as a recruitment tool in the future?

 Jaclyn SYMES (Northern Victoria – Attorney-General, Minister for Emergency Services) (12:32): I think there is a bit of self-reflection in relation to the committee stage of the bill. In terms of legislation that we know has the potential to be challenged, we examine these issues and we make a judgement call on whether you have laws that will stand up to constitutional challenge, High Court challenge and the like, and we have received advice in relation to crafting of that bill that we are not beyond challenge. Of course very few laws are, but we are confident that we have set the right balance in relation to how it responds to charter issues and the like. Let us see how these laws go. I think there is a bit of wriggle room; you described them as not. This is sending a signal to the community about appropriate behaviour. Police will have an extra tool. We had the discussions about, in practice, them saying to people, ‘That’s really inappropriate; don’t do that.’ If they do not comply, that is when the laws become useful. I think it is an additional tool for the management of behaviour that we have seen appear in Victoria, and it is something that we do not want to see continue.